The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

WelshShooter wrote:The logic of disallowing some paintwork is similar to banning guns because they "look" dangerous (i.e. AR-15 "salt" rifles). Instead just employ common sense - if a firearm has been painted to mimic a toy then it is the owners responsibility to ensure that their children do not have access to them. In terms of carrying a real rifle that resembles a toy in public, that could be a different matter. Many states in the US allow open carry so how the rifle looks doesn't matter. The states that do not allow open carry would be different and obviously the context of the situation is important.

Its the logic I dont get. What if any is the intent? If it IS to deceive then why?

Why disguise a real rifle as a toy (other than the obvious)?

Why not just buy a toy?

Sounds rather Naive to me, there seems to be a lot of that creeping into shooting these days, rather like the bell-end that suggested I, Dan the Man and Airbrush would have loved being in Paris during the last abomination because we were shooting black rifles (We need a bell end smiley )

Soon put him straight on that one and left him to figure out how to sort a target out from the firing point....

Its the logic I dont get. What if any is the intent? If it IS to deceive then why?

Why disguise a real rifle as a toy (other than the obvious)?

Why not just buy a toy?

Maybe because they CAN and they want a bit of FUN, y'know that thing that's in short supply these days in the UK. by chnaging it they have a "style" and as there IS a body who get scared of all things black then this should be welcomed..If someone is going to do something illegal / silly then they'll do it anyway..

Did they not have kits that let you have an Aliens style "pulse rifle" a short time ago....Maybe we should stop taking life so seriously, god knows we have enough worries in the world without someone having a NERF gun that works ...As long as it's legal then really, should we care?

https://youtu.be/am76xV8Aubk


So yes, let's get FUN back into things.

I've been constantly thinking of a rifle I could 'steampunk'.

I also like the Nerf paint job in the original post. To be honest, I wouldn't mind some sort of shotgun in nerf-style colours.

I have always figured I wanted black rifle style of firearms because they are what I like the look of, but thinking about it, I'd happily mod something to look like something out of Borderlands given a chance.

I shoot for fun, what my firearm looks like doesn't affect anyone else. As long as I maintain range safety, what does it matter if it is painted to look like a nerf gun or look like something that was used by a SF doorkicker?

Livefast wrote: if somebody wants to make their rifle look like it's from Star Wars then crack on.

I just point out that the weapons carried by the Stormtroopers in the early SW films were slightly dressed-up Sterling SMGs. Whether live, deact or copy I have no idea, but I was allocated (a real)
one as a PDW for a few months and that is what they were.

IainWR wrote:

Livefast wrote: if somebody wants to make their rifle look like it's from Star Wars then crack on.

I just point out that the weapons carried by the Stormtroopers in the early SW films were slightly dressed-up Sterling SMGs. Whether live, deact or copy I have no idea, but I was allocated (a real)
one as a PDW for a few months and that is what they were.

They were blank firers, you can see the cases ejecting and lots of the actors flinching when firing them! (Particularly noticeable in A New Hope where Luke is rescuing Leia and they swing across a gap on a piece of string. On some versions of the film the 'laser' noise hasn't been added and its just a BANG from the gun)

Chuck wrote:

Its the logic I dont get. What if any is the intent? If it IS to deceive then why?

Why disguise a real rifle as a toy (other than the obvious)?

Why not just buy a toy?

Maybe because they CAN and they want a bit of FUN, y'know that thing that's in short supply these days in the UK. by chnaging it they have a "style" and as there IS a body who get scared of all things black then this should be welcomed..If someone is going to do something illegal / silly then they'll do it anyway..

Did they not have kits that let you have an Aliens style "pulse rifle" a short time ago....Maybe we should stop taking life so seriously, god knows we have enough worries in the world without someone having a NERF gun that works ...As long as it's legal then really, should we care?

https://youtu.be/am76xV8Aubk


So yes, let's get FUN back into things.

OK, I see that, in the right environment.

But simply because you can do something does not make it right unless common sense is applied.

Here's a law enforcement angle.

Scenario A

Perp points a black rifle at armed cop. Armed cop reacts and drops perp. Job jobbed, happy days....it could have been an airsoft but its the risk you take with realistic looking firearms in the wrong environment.

The reaction to someone armed with a black rifle will never change I am afraid.


Scenario B

Perp points a nerf gun at armed cop. Armed cop hesitates. Gets dropped.

3 weeks later.....Kid points nerf gun at scenario Bs surviving mate. This time he does not hesitate and kills kid with Nerf gun.

Enquiry

Ban (probably more far reaching than making proper firearms look like toys).

Dead innocent (but misguided) kid.

SO. On the one hand we have a law here determining that unless you are in a specific group of individuals you should not (I say should not) own an airsoft gun that does not have large patches of blue, orange etc on it.

But on the other hand we are advocating taking legit firearms an legally disguising them as something else...because its fun

I know this does not mean that crims wont try to make the real thing look like a toy, but ultimately it will mean that more innocent (if slightly stupid) people WILL get slotted, and there WILL be public outcry because one of my colleagues has reacted on our behalf as we pay him or her to do, and ultimately 2 peoples and their families lives are ruined for fun.

Genius

They could just quietly enjoy their sport without having to push the boundaries all the time because they can Chuck OK, you may say that people will only use them on a range....but again, crims dont abide by the rules, they are crims

Boundaries and identification of firearms needs (now more than ever) to be as clear as it can be. Crims will be crims, but we would hope that intelligence will help there (or otherwise).

I will ask my colleague on the Firearms Training team what he thinks of this latest and greatest idea.

Paying devils advocate if you had a gun painted to look like a toy over here could an overzealous copper (+CPS) try to pin a Section 5 offence on you under;

Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F8or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or sells or transfers—

(a)any firearm which is disguised as another object;

Maggot wrote:

Chuck wrote:

Its the logic I dont get. What if any is the intent? If it IS to deceive then why?

Why disguise a real rifle as a toy (other than the obvious)?

Why not just buy a toy?

Maybe because they CAN and they want a bit of FUN, y'know that thing that's in short supply these days in the UK. by chnaging it they have a "style" and as there IS a body who get scared of all things black then this should be welcomed..If someone is going to do something illegal / silly then they'll do it anyway..

Did they not have kits that let you have an Aliens style "pulse rifle" a short time ago....Maybe we should stop taking life so seriously, god knows we have enough worries in the world without someone having a NERF gun that works ...As long as it's legal then really, should we care?

https://youtu.be/am76xV8Aubk


So yes, let's get FUN back into things.

OK, I see that, in the right environment.

But simply because you can do something does not make it right unless common sense is applied.

Here's a law enforcement angle.

Scenario A

Perp points a black rifle at armed cop. Armed cop reacts and drops perp. Job jobbed, happy days....it could have been an airsoft but its the risk you take with realistic looking firearms in the wrong environment.

The reaction to someone armed with a black rifle will never change I am afraid.


Scenario B

Perp points a nerf gun at armed cop. Armed cop hesitates. Gets dropped.

3 weeks later.....Kid points nerf gun at scenario Bs surviving mate. This time he does not hesitate and kills kid with Nerf gun.

Enquiry

Ban (probably more far reaching than making proper firearms look like toys).

Dead innocent (but misguided) kid.

SO. On the one hand we have a law here determining that unless you are in a specific group of individuals you should not (I say should not) own an airsoft gun that does not have large patches of blue, orange etc on it.

But on the other hand we are advocating taking legit firearms an legally disguising them as something else...because its fun

I know this does not mean that crims wont try to make the real thing look like a toy, but ultimately it will mean that more innocent (if slightly stupid) people WILL get slotted, and there WILL be public outcry because one of my colleagues has reacted on our behalf as we pay him or her to do, and ultimately 2 peoples and their families lives are ruined for fun.

Genius

They could just quietly enjoy their sport without having to push the boundaries all the time because they can Chuck OK, you may say that people will only use them on a range....but again, crims dont abide by the rules, they are crims

Boundaries and identification of firearms needs (now more than ever) to be as clear as it can be. Crims will be crims, but we would hope that intelligence will help there (or otherwise).

I will ask my colleague on the Firearms Training team what he thinks of this latest and greatest idea.

OK, you could ban every legitimate and legal gun owner from painting their gun any colour other than that which the manufacturer paints/coats it.......but as we all know that won't stop criminals doing it so once again it is the law-abiding folks that suffer.

I would say that the body language etc of the "Perp" in your scenario B would be completely different to that of a child with a Nerf gun.
Even though the AR in the opening post of this thread is painted like a Nerf gun it still looks like a painted AR, the intention being to create something different and individual rather than to deliberately deceive for nefarious purposes.

Blackstuff wrote:Paying devils advocate if you had a gun painted to look like a toy over here could an overzealous copper (+CPS) try to pin a Section 5 offence on you under;

Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F8or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or sells or transfers—

(a)any firearm which is disguised as another object;

Was just about to point this out. Therefore painting guns in this country to look like toys is already an offence.

How far does a paint job go before it comes under this banner, as yet has not been established, no doubt painting an AR to look like a Nerf gun would see it enacted though, as you so rightly say if you got an overzealous copper on the case.

Blackstuff wrote:Paying devils advocate if you had a gun painted to look like a toy over here could an overzealous copper (+CPS) try to pin a Section 5 offence on you under;

Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F8or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or sells or transfers—

(a)any firearm which is disguised as another object;

Doesn't that apply to things like briefcase guns and walking stick type firearms?.If you had a rifle painted like at Nerf gun at an approved range how many overzealous coppers would see it?.A guy at my club has a rifle painted with the "Stars and Stripes".......does that mean it's disguised as a flag???!!!.