Best Caliber for F Class

[Quarters]

I don't want to reload as my girlfriend is uncomfortable with guns and ammunition around the house and kids. She isn't anti-gun just scared of them if you see what I mean!

My AI is a great rifle but others ion club have dolphins and have overtaken me since they got them.

I'm not too bothered about competing I the FClass league I just want the most accurate gun I can afford for club days at Bisley.

I can spend about £3500 on the gun and about £1 a bang on ammunition but I then don't want to be saddled with the cost of a new barrel very year or two.

I was thinking of an Fclass rifle with SEB type front rest but in .308

[RobB]

I would suggest going for a Dolphin (keep in with your mates) and a Sightron scope (very good value). F-Class FTR so your barrel lasts and the bipod is a lot cheaper than an F-Open tripod. Check with Mik about the GGG factory ammo.
Then have fun. :)

[ovenpaa]

Barrel life even on a .308 F/TR is going to be down to just how hot you load it, we have customers who are having barrels swapped out on F/TR rifles at around 1000 rounds. With some factory you can get significantly higher round counts through the rifle however even some factory ammunition is quite spiteful.

[Maggot]

I would suggest going for a Dolphin (keep in with your mates) and a Sightron scope (very good value). F-Class FTR so your barrel lasts and the bipod is a lot cheaper than an F-Open tripod. Check with Mik about the GGG factory ammo.
Then have fun. :)

That is what I had, the Lilja 3 groove barrel really went. I dont know where the green meanie is now, still shooting I hope. With GGG you might get lucky, they use SMKs anyway. The 3 groove definitely went quick.

I would state categorically that hand loading is a must for being competitive, initially you spend as much time load developing as you do shooting.

Then, as you get to know the rifle, your expectations raise so you keep doing it...arrgghhhh CSR is so much more relaxing (Not ....less hassle though!!!)

The thing is something as silly as 5 thou jump or the right neck tension or case length can make all the difference between and FTR rifle and a TR rifle.

What most people dont get is that they assume that because the rifle shoots at 800, and may be ok on a warm day at 900, its the poxy 100 yards between 900-1000, and that is when an FTR rifle and the .308 for precision is really tested.

You see it again and again...."It shoots really well at 1000, stayed in the V all morning". What they forget to mention was it was flat calm and a TR target. I managed to do that in the pounding rain on my wind reading coaches course, I think I was the only one shooting and was laying in a small pool of foamy water as the recoil shook things up a bit.

I remember the Tyro FTR shot we had in our club. "Look and learn he cried" as he hit a TR V at 300 with an all singing all dancing Dolphin. So I shot 3 Vs with an old scoped target rifle with a sling, laughed and walked off (and I am at best an average shot)....it was all luck apparently I had to agree but sometimes lady luck smiles on the useless The same person was taken to Stickledown at 1000 and went into meltdown....they were not going into the V any more and work/ability was required...who knew? clapclap

As Matt says, try it with the AI first, many people start with that sort of rifle and in all honesty that was how it was meant to be, but like everything, it evolved and people try to keep up. Some, like me, decide its too much fretting over loads and cash etc.

It is both rewarding and frustrating, but a great sport never the less, I loved it but I am afraid that circumstances mean I will be sticking with the agricultural machinery .

As regards hand loading, its probably safer as you could keep loaded ammo around for a minimum amount of time, unless you intend buying on the day of course.

Either way, the point of this is not to put the OP off, but to suggest that it is highly addictive so try it first and, ideally, try someone elses Dolphin out (Mik will often let you have a go anyway), then you will see the difference.

[Maggot]

Barrel life even on a .308 F/TR is going to be down to just how hot you load it, we have customers who are having barrels swapped out on F/TR rifles at around 1000 rounds. With some factory you can get significantly higher round counts through the rifle however even some factory ammunition is quite spiteful.

Fair point Dave.

The thing is you are after max consistency, usually at max chat. Whereas a TR or Mcqueens/CSR/PO rifle barrel may go on for many thousands of rounds until the groups goes skeet, you will be wanting a .5MOA "Max" group (Ideally better) and to keep it.

Its precise artillery really.

The .308 is not the best long range load, it just went that way because F class was supposed to be for the older, less sprightly shooter. Staying in a TR sling for hours on end can be quite tiring along with the eye strain and recoil. Mr F (Farquarson ONO) decided to stick a scope and bipod on a target rifle so he could carry on shooting...and why not.

But like most things it went mad, the oilrig was introduced and open class started (real artillery) and before you know it you have a world class p*** competition testing the rifle in many cases more than the firer (not entirely true at the top end I know, but at the lower end people really do think they are good shots when all they are doing is comparing a well set up CNC machine with a bloke in his shed who produces the same result with less).

But at the top end, say the top third and just below, there are some very talented shots....even Matt

[RobB]

Quarters
I'm quite often up at Bisley with my Dolphin FTR rifle so if our paths cross your welcome to have a try (bring your safe shooter card).
It does get addictive even to the point of trying to beat your best grouping on the electronic target. Great if you have no friends :)
If your mates are using factory ammo then keep a level playing field and join them. Otherwise, like me, you end up trying different bullets, powder loads, jump distance. My best combination at 300yards when I tried the electronic for the 1st time last month for a 5 shot group (not really enough I know) was 23mm*30mm (centre-centre). 155.5 Berger with 45gr RS-52 powder. Take out the last shot and it would have been only 4mm*26mm.
As you can see from the above it can get obsessive!
I have shot a dolphin, similar to mine, with NRA RWS factory ammo early last year and it hit the FClass target at 1000yrds, some in the v-bull on a still day.


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[Matt]

Barrel life even on a .308 F/TR is going to be down to just how hot you load it, we have customers who are having barrels swapped out on F/TR rifles at around 1000 rounds. With some factory you can get significantly higher round counts through the rifle however even some factory ammunition is quite spiteful.

Fair point Dave.

The thing is you are after max consistency, usually at max chat. Whereas a TR or Mcqueens/CSR/PO rifle barrel may go on for many thousands of rounds until the groups goes skeet, you will be wanting a .5MOA "Max" group (Ideally better) and to keep it.

Its precise artillery really.

The .308 is not the best long range load, it just went that way because F class was supposed to be for the older, less sprightly shooter. Staying in a TR sling for hours on end can be quite tiring along with the eye strain and recoil. Mr F (Farquarson ONO) decided to stick a scope and bipod on a target rifle so he could carry on shooting...and why not.

But like most things it went mad, the oilrig was introduced and open class started (real artillery) and before you know it you have a world class p*** competition testing the rifle in many cases more than the firer (not entirely true at the top end I know, but at the lower end people really do think they are good shots when all they are doing is comparing a well set up CNC machine with a bloke in his shed who produces the same result with less).

But at the top end, say the top third and just below, there are some very talented shots....even Matt

Why thank you Gerald, I'm getting all embaressed now

In all seriousness though barrell life can be really good, my last one was still great at just over 3.5 thousand (didn't go much further though ) and I know many that run hotter loads than I do that have had similar round counts using Bartlein

[RobB]

I have a Bartlein :)


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[Laurie]

At national level, sevens predominate - mainly 7mm WSM but in slight wildcat configurations (as 300 or 270 WSM cases are preferred to the factory 7mm version) plus a few others in the calibre, .284 Win (known as the 'straight 284'), 284 Shehane and 7mm Rem SAUM. A few competitors are now shooting the .300WSM.

At club level, you'll find a larger range of calibres, but again there are a lot of custom sevens in use with a bias to the .284 Win / Shehane. Amongst those who bring multi-purpose fox / deer / match rifles, 6.5X47mm Lapua is very popular. The 6.5s make effective short to mid-range cartridges at this level - 260 Rem, the Lapua, 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor. 123gn bullets offer startlingly good ballistics for their weight and in a 30-inch barrel this trio will provide MVs in the 2,950-3,000 bracket which offer an effective 1,000 yard performance. The larger 6.5s - 6.5X55 and 6.5-284 Norma provide MVs in the 2,800s and 2,900s for 140gn bullets in match barrels.

For short and mid range F (ie 200-600 yards), the little 6mm BR Norma is a very effective performer and joy to shoot. Its light recoil and inherent precision make it a potential match winner in calm conditions and with 105s it'll still perform very well at 800-1,000 yards. It like all the sixes lose out though on a rough day to larger calibre rounds with heavier / higher BC bullets at 500 yards and upwards. The BR is a very good choice to start club F-Class in though even if this role has largely been grabbed by the 6.5X47mm Lapua in recent years.

As noted, handloading is near essential, but some of these cartridges are available in factory match form, a few from the factory and others from HPS-Target Rifle as special order numbers. 6.5 Creedmoor has match loadings from Hornady with 120 and 140gn AMax bullets. As this was intended to be a 'factory match' round and US retail prices are reasonable, it should logically be the best choice. However, due to its fantastic (and still growing) popularity in the USA, factory ammunition is like hen's teeth and hardly any comes here.

Lapua provides 6.5X47 match ammo - but a frightening per round price and as almost everybody handloads the cartridge, you'd likely have trouble finding anybody who stocks it. Norma and Lapua load the 6mm BR Norma, and whilst it might be a little easier to find than 6.5X47L, is still very thin on the ground. Lapua and Norma also provide match loads for the 6.5X55, the former being a good performer but a bit underloaded as it's assumed it'll be shot in M1896/1938 Swedish Mausers as well as stronger modern rifles that take the more recent 55,000 psi 6.5X55mm SKAN loading. (139gn Scenar does ~2,600 fps in a 30-inch barrel match rifle whereas handloads will do over 2,800 fps within CIP SKAN pressures.)

So, that leaves HPS-TR, maybe one or two other specialist small providers. HPS only does 303, 308, and 223 as mainstream list items, so you'd have to ask about others. They will load 6mm BR, 260 Rem, 6.5X47L, 6.5-284 and a few others to special order, but you'd have to check on minimum order sizes and costs.

So far as barrel life goes, nothing that works in F-Class is as good as the two FTR cartridges, 223 and 308 which offer 3,500 full accuracy life in factory loads. 6BR offers bench-rest precision for ~1,500 rounds with full pressure 105gn loads, maybe another 500-1,000 with falling performance. The smaller 6.5 trio run at 2,000-2,500 rounds and the larger ones less depending on loadings and pressures. 6.5-284 Norma, a hot number only gives 900-1,200 rounds if loaded fully for instance. 6.5X55 will vary greatly depending on its loadings / pressures, factory Lapua likely 2,500 and up, full-house SKAN loads 1,500-2,000 rounds. The milder sevens give good life - 284 and the Shehane at least 2,000 rounds if loaded sensibly and if with a cooler burning powder such as Hodgdon H1000 and Viht N165 can exceed 2,500 rounds and still provide exceptional results. The 7mm short magnums used by the league guys usually give 900-1,000 rounds, but if they're really stoked up this can drop to 600.

[Maggot]

At national level, sevens predominate - mainly 7mm WSM but in slight wildcat configurations (as 300 or 270 WSM cases are preferred to the factory 7mm version) plus a few others in the calibre, .284 Win (known as the 'straight 284'), 284 Shehane and 7mm Rem SAUM. A few competitors are now shooting the .300WSM.

At club level, you'll find a larger range of calibres, but again there are a lot of custom sevens in use with a bias to the .284 Win / Shehane. Amongst those who bring multi-purpose fox / deer / match rifles, 6.5X47mm Lapua is very popular. The 6.5s make effective short to mid-range cartridges at this level - 260 Rem, the Lapua, 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor. 123gn bullets offer startlingly good ballistics for their weight and in a 30-inch barrel this trio will provide MVs in the 2,950-3,000 bracket which offer an effective 1,000 yard performance. The larger 6.5s - 6.5X55 and 6.5-284 Norma provide MVs in the 2,800s and 2,900s for 140gn bullets in match barrels.

For short and mid range F (ie 200-600 yards), the little 6mm BR Norma is a very effective performer and joy to shoot. Its light recoil and inherent precision make it a potential match winner in calm conditions and with 105s it'll still perform very well at 800-1,000 yards. It like all the sixes lose out though on a rough day to larger calibre rounds with heavier / higher BC bullets at 500 yards and upwards. The BR is a very good choice to start club F-Class in though even if this role has largely been grabbed by the 6.5X47mm Lapua in recent years.

As noted, handloading is near essential, but some of these cartridges are available in factory match form, a few from the factory and others from HPS-Target Rifle as special order numbers. 6.5 Creedmoor has match loadings from Hornady with 120 and 140gn AMax bullets. As this was intended to be a 'factory match' round and US retail prices are reasonable, it should logically be the best choice. However, due to its fantastic (and still growing) popularity in the USA, factory ammunition is like hen's teeth and hardly any comes here.

Lapua provides 6.5X47 match ammo - but a frightening per round price and as almost everybody handloads the cartridge, you'd likely have trouble finding anybody who stocks it. Norma and Lapua load the 6mm BR Norma, and whilst it might be a little easier to find than 6.5X47L, is still very thin on the ground. Lapua and Norma also provide match loads for the 6.5X55, the former being a good performer but a bit underloaded as it's assumed it'll be shot in M1896/1938 Swedish Mausers as well as stronger modern rifles that take the more recent 55,000 psi 6.5X55mm SKAN loading. (139gn Scenar does ~2,600 fps in a 30-inch barrel match rifle whereas handloads will do over 2,800 fps within CIP SKAN pressures.)

So, that leaves HPS-TR, maybe one or two other specialist small providers. HPS only does 303, 308, and 223 as mainstream list items, so you'd have to ask about others. They will load 6mm BR, 260 Rem, 6.5X47L, 6.5-284 and a few others to special order, but you'd have to check on minimum order sizes and costs.

So far as barrel life goes, nothing that works in F-Class is as good as the two FTR cartridges, 223 and 308 which offer 3,500 full accuracy life in factory loads. 6BR offers bench-rest precision for ~1,500 rounds with full pressure 105gn loads, maybe another 500-1,000 with falling performance. The smaller 6.5 trio run at 2,000-2,500 rounds and the larger ones less depending on loadings and pressures. 6.5-284 Norma, a hot number only gives 900-1,200 rounds if loaded fully for instance. 6.5X55 will vary greatly depending on its loadings / pressures, factory Lapua likely 2,500 and up, full-house SKAN loads 1,500-2,000 rounds. The milder sevens give good life - 284 and the Shehane at least 2,000 rounds if loaded sensibly and if with a cooler burning powder such as Hodgdon H1000 and Viht N165 can exceed 2,500 rounds and still provide exceptional results. The 7mm short magnums used by the league guys usually give 900-1,000 rounds, but if they're really stoked up this can drop to 600.

Bloody hell Laurie.....600....hells bells