The old chestnut of firearms for self defence - a question..

[User702]

Leaving aside the moral debate over 'just in case'...

I've lived in some reasonably dodgy areas in Bristol (St. Pauls rough enough for ye?) and Watford and never really felt the need to have a firearm, or other weapon, on me. My current place in Cambridgeshire is what I would class as a low risk area and I can see no reason to disagree with that. Even when I had to travel to Brixton at weekends I didn't think it as risky enough to want to be armed, but that could just be because I didn't stray into the properly s*** areas.

The only places that I've been to that I would want to be armed before I went back are Saigon and Afghanistan. Luckily I have control over that decision for the latter.

[Blackstuff]

When I was about 18 I decided to walk home from a 6th form party and was set up on the way, got quite a kicking. Wouldn't have warranted a gun perhaps but pepperspray would've saved me a couple of painful weeks and a rollocking off my parents for "ruining my new top" The other handful or so of altercations in my youth I came off better, thankfully.

The closest thing I suppose I've came to thinking I wanted a gun in my hand there and then was during the Raoul Moat saga. I was working about a mile or two away from where he killed his ex's partner and shot her and there was a 'sighting' of him in the building. It also just happened to be right next door to a police station and his threat to shoot more coppers was by then common knowledge so there was a strong possibility it was real. At the time I was working about 3 minutes fast drive from my house (and guns), but they might as well have been on the dark side of the moon.

Thankfully armed response was there in under 10 minutes and stayed for a few hours until it was established it had just been someone who looked like Moat. Despite their response time, had the sighting been real, the whole place could've been shot to $h!t before they arrived.

[mullen7]

Had a knife pulled on me by someone who claimed to be Paul Ferris' nephew or something along those lines. Was 15 at the time, absolutely petrified me. Saying that, I'm fairly certain, had I been older and even with a SDW of some sort, I still wouldn't have done anything of the sort, as I froze up instantly due to being so scared for my life.

Also a good friend of mine was in Glasgow Airport when the terrorist attack happened there. He was the same, froze, panicked and tried to hide for his own safety.

[joe]

In much of Europe, taser, papper spray can be carried by anyone ! Most of Europe is not crime ridden in fact lot of EU cities are prob safer then UK cities ! In Portugal you can get permission to carry a maximum caliber of .25 for self protection (not easy to get ) the gun crime / violent crime is no ware near the UK ! Even in France i think it's possible to obtain permission to carry a firearm

The threat level here is knives mainly. Get into a sticky situation the possibility of the scum of using a knife is high even some kids like to carry knives and will use them !There were times i could of done with CS gas or tazer

[breacher]

Thanks for the replies guys - I guess I would like to have the CHOICE to have something for self defence ( even if only a stun gun or cs spray ) but I guess even in USA etc, where there is a choice, many do not decide to take advantage of it ?

As to the "insurance policy" argument - I totally get that - I carry a little pouch 24/7 - small torch, swiss army knife and bladeless multitool - do I use it daily ? No. But from time to time I need one of the items and its nice to have it when needed.

I wonder if anybody has asked why in an EU where we are supposed to have harmonised laws, we are not allowed CS or Stun guns when our French neighbours are ? All this talk of us being ruled by EU and EU law trumping UK law, does not seem to apply to pistols and elf defence non-lethal items ?

[froggy]

was mugged/robbed ... Put up no resistance ... but they stabbed him anyway.
Same thing happened in Seven Sisters couple years ago. Guy handed his wallet and then got stabbed through the heart.

Even in France i think it's possible to obtain permission to carry a firearm
No , It is nearly impossible .

[joe]

What about the terror threat? Paris style attacks, is there any justification to allow trained fac holders to carry because of that threat ?? Paris has proved twice that even routinely armed police couldn't make it in time !!

[breacher]

What about the terror threat? Paris style attacks, is there any justification to allow trained fac holders to carry because of that threat ?? Paris has proved twice that even routinely armed police couldn't make it in time !!

3 big problems in "active shooter" or terrorist attacks.

1 - You see a man walking down the street towards you with his AK at the low patrol position. Is he another "trained fac holder" or is he a bad guy. Have you got safe backstop ? Have you time to shout a challenge ? What is the challenge ? Maybe the other guy thinks YOU are the bad guy and will refuse to drop his weapon ? If he is a bad guy, he wont give a fcuk about backstop etc and will probably beat you to the draw as a result.

2 - There is an increasing trend for terrorists to dress in tacticool gear ( Dublin recently they even had NATO helmets ) or impersonate Police. One more thing to delay your thought process when you challenge a "bad guy" - is he actually Police or an imposter ? Shall I shoot or challenge. If I challenge he might shoot me first. And all the while you are thinking of this ( and the backstop issue ) a real bad guy has already sent a burst in your direction.

3 - Police responding to an active shooter - they will be looking for an individual with a gun. When they meet you, you will be treated as a suspect. An armed suspect. Maybe you will drop your weapon. Maybe you will be alarmed when challenged and make a sudden movement ?

[joe]

What about the terror threat? Paris style attacks, is there any justification to allow trained fac holders to carry because of that threat ?? Paris has proved twice that even routinely armed police couldn't make it in time !!

3 big problems in "active shooter" or terrorist attacks.

1 - You see a man walking down the street towards you with his AK at the low patrol position. Is he another "trained fac holder" or is he a bad guy. Have you got safe backstop ? Have you time to shout a challenge ? What is the challenge ? Maybe the other guy thinks YOU are the bad guy and will refuse to drop his weapon ? If he is a bad guy, he wont give a fcuk about backstop etc and will probably beat you to the draw as a result.

2 - There is an increasing trend for terrorists to dress in tacticool gear ( Dublin recently they even had NATO helmets ) or impersonate Police. One more thing to delay your thought process when you challenge a "bad guy" - is he actually Police or an imposter ? Shall I shoot or challenge. If I challenge he might shoot me first. And all the while you are thinking of this ( and the backstop issue ) a real bad guy has already sent a burst in your direction.

3 - Police responding to an active shooter - they will be looking for an individual with a gun. When they meet you, you will be treated as a suspect. An armed suspect. Maybe you will drop your weapon. Maybe you will be alarmed when challenged and make a sudden movement ?

Good points, although I would like see how these problems are taught in ccw classes in those 30 U.S. States and some EU countries. I would suspect in those U.S. States that allow ccw that if there was ever a situation where ccw's shot each other or something then those states would ban ccw. Then again a active shooter and a mugger with a Saturday night special are two totally different situations and can't be compared

[Dombo63]

3 - Police responding to an active shooter - they will be looking for an individual with a gun. When they meet you, you will be treated as a suspect. An armed suspect. Maybe you will drop your weapon. Maybe you will be alarmed when challenged and make a sudden movement ?

Obviously I wouldn't be mistaken for the suspect, as I would be lying on a mat with my No4 and spotting scope, calmly waiting for the real bad guy to position himself ideally between 100 and 300 yards away, in a more or less direct line between me and a safe backstop.