Question time

[redcat]

Slightly different to your photo I think Simon. This one is a little thicker around the clamp area.

Redcat

[Sim G]

Yeah, it's an FN49...

That was quick, Sim were there are FN49's in the uk pre 1988 at all?

Yes there were. Not only that, over a very wide career I've been fortunate to shoot and handle a phenomenal variety of guns.

Initially when I saw it, I remembered it being on a wooden stocked rifle and immediately thought of the MAS 36/51, which the launcher bears a striking resemblance to, but the aiming ladder is off to the left hand side on that micro. But I was convinced it was off a semi auto, hence the SKS as the MAS 49 has a completely different unit.

Looking at SKS grenade launchers, no, it doesn't fit, but I couldn't shake the wooden stocked semi auto thing.... Then the FN49 came to the front!

Compare redcats pic with the one I posted in #6, I think they are one and the same to all intents and purposes.

[Sixshot6]

Yeah, it's an FN49...

That was quick, Sim were there are FN49's in the uk pre 1988 at all?

Yes there were. Not only that, over a very wide career I've been fortunate to shoot and handle a phenomenal variety of guns.

Initially when I saw it, I remembered it being on a wooden stocked rifle and immediately thought of the MAS 36/51, which the launcher bears a striking resemblance to, but the aiming ladder is off to the left hand side on that micro. But I was convinced it was off a semi auto, hence the SKS as the MAS 49 has a completely different unit.

Looking at SKS grenade launchers, no, it doesn't fit, but I couldn't shake the wooden stocked semi auto thing.... Then the FN49 came to the front!

Compare redcats pic with the one I posted in #6, I think they are one and the same to all intents and purposes.

Thank you. I seem to recall the last grenade launcher like that was for the AR10 (original) all are now mostly clamped on the barrel (M4) or on a rail for the user's sake.

[Sim G]

Slightly different to your photo I think Simon. This one is a little thicker around the clamp area.

Redcat

Seems there were a number of different marks of launcher, all depending to whom it was supplied to and in what calibre of launching cartridge.

Have a look here, is this the mark that yours has? It's a picture of a FN49 launcher for 8mm/30-06. It seems that's where difference can lie. Perhaps the clamp area depends on what muzzle brake or flash hider the using military has...?

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/p ... oduct=3900

[snayperskaya]

I recall the Yugo SKS's had a grenade launcher that was activated by a switch that limits the gas to single shot and then allowed for blanks to be used to fire a 22mm NATO (despite being a communist country the grenade launcher is NATO rather than Soviet spec) from the rifle. In any event I've compared and it looks to be the M59/66 grenade launcher.

They were nothing to do with anything NATO.....

The 22mm diameter is the diameter of the spigot launcher itself, not the diameter of the grenade....the Zastava M70 and the Yugo SKS had a flip-up grenade launcher sight on the gas block that when raised shut off the gas port to allow, as Sixshot pointed out, a blank 7.62x39 cartridge to launch the grenade.The spigot itself is nothing more fancy than a machined steel tube that the tail end of the grenade slips over.

http://www.lexpev.nl/grenades/sovietbal ... nades.html

With practice you can get pretty accurate with the launcher, handy for firing into upper storey windows etc

[saddler]

Mr Dremel tool will be wanting to play with that...unless it's got a deactivation
certificate.

Section 5

[Sim G]

I recall the Yugo SKS's had a grenade launcher that was activated by a switch that limits the gas to single shot and then allowed for blanks to be used to fire a 22mm NATO (despite being a communist country the grenade launcher is NATO rather than Soviet spec) from the rifle. In any event I've compared and it looks to be the M59/66 grenade launcher.

They were nothing to do with anything NATO.....

The 22mm diameter is the diameter of the spigot launcher itself, not the diameter of the grenade....the Zastava M70 and the Yugo SKS had a flip-up grenade launcher sight on the gas block that when raised shut off the gas port to allow, as Sixshot pointed out, a blank 7.62x39 cartridge to launch the grenade.The spigot itself is nothing more fancy than a machined steel tube that the tail end of the grenade slips over.

http://www.lexpev.nl/grenades/sovietbal ... nades.html

With practice you can get pretty accurate with the launcher, handy for firing into upper storey windows etc

Multiple quoting looks as if I wrote that the Yugo grenade launcher was NATO related, I didn't...

[nickb834]

Mr Dremel tool will be wanting to play with that...unless it's got a deactivation
certificate.

Section 5

That is a distinct possiblity - however, it's:

• not a firearm in it's own right, as it's not....well, a gun - as: no trigger, firing pin | striker, bolt etc
• nor is it a silencer
• nor flash eliminator
• nor is it chambered

It would be hard to argue I think that it's not a pressure bearing device intended for use on a firearm and as such could be considered a component part, except it was always designed as an accessory so to that end is it a component part? Arguably no as it doesn't function on it's own, and only functions when attached to a firearm. As soon as it's removed from the firearm it was designed for - the firearm continues to function without it (as a rifle but not a grenade launcher) so it can't be a component part of a rifle - but could be considered a component part of a grenade launching firearm.

I'd argue it is however a muzzle "device" in much the same vein as an A2 birdcage for an AR - the purpose of said device not being specifically prohibited in any of the 68, 88 or 97 acts. Section 5c of the 68 act does refer to:

if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb (or other like missile), or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid

Which makes me wonder that if as long as the "grenade" is inert - then theoretically you should be able to shoot it with this attachment!?!

Don't think it'd benefit from S58, the ammunition to launch a grenade is still available (when looking at cartridge only and not specific rounds of that cartridge family designed for grenade launching) and the grenades themselves being deeply S5 doesn't help.

For the uncertainty it's not worth the risk, these are "Strict Liability" offenses when it comes to the firearms act - at best I'd expect a conditional discharge if it ever went to court as intention is worth nothing (based on the case of the Asian chap posessing a flash eliminator without an FAC https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com/20 ... omponents/ and https://cases.legal/en/act-uk2-9138.html)

[saddler]

Mr Dremel tool will be wanting to play with that...unless it's got a deactivation
certificate.

Section 5

That is a distinct possiblity - however, it's:

• not a firearm in it's own right, as it's not....well, a gun - as: no trigger, firing pin | striker, bolt etc
• nor is it a silencer
• nor flash eliminator
• nor is it chambered

It would be hard to argue I think that it's not a pressure bearing device intended for use on a firearm and as such could be considered a component part, except it was always designed as an accessory so to that end is it a component part? Arguably no as it doesn't function on it's own, and only functions when attached to a firearm. As soon as it's removed from the firearm it was designed for - the firearm continues to function without it (as a rifle but not a grenade launcher) so it can't be a component part of a rifle - but could be considered a component part of a grenade launching firearm.

I'd argue it is however a muzzle "device" in much the same vein as an A2 birdcage for an AR - the purpose of said device not being specifically prohibited in any of the 68, 88 or 97 acts. Section 5c of the 68 act does refer to:

if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb (or other like missile), or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid

Which makes me wonder that if as long as the "grenade" is inert - then theoretically you should be able to shoot it with this attachment!?!

Don't think it'd benefit from S58, the ammunition to launch a grenade is still available (when looking at calibre only) and the grenades themselves being deeply S5 doesn't help.

For the uncertainty it's not worth the risk.

Grenade Launchers ARE Section 5...logical arguments are invalid, as we're dealing with UK legislation.

[nickb834]

Mr Dremel tool will be wanting to play with that...unless it's got a deactivation
certificate.

Section 5

snipped for brevity whilst quoting

Grenade Launchers ARE Section 5...logical arguments are invalid, as we're dealing with UK legislation.

Aye I've just found where I think launchers are prohibited under S5 of the '68 act:

• Section 5, Subsection 1:
• (ae)any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line-throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus;] - this gets referenced by Subsection 1a
• (b)any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing; and

• Section 5, Subsection 1a:
• (c)any launcher or other projecting apparatus not falling within paragraph (ae) of that subsection which is designed to be used with any rocket or ammunition falling within paragraph (b) above or with ammunition which would fall within that paragraph but for its being ammunition falling within paragraph (c) of that subsection;

Defo not worth the risk - get rid.