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...and a .308 FAL - this is ticking my boxes the most right now (at least 'on paper'). Never used one though

rattlesocks wrote:Thanks Maggot, very interesting

The comps I am interested in are fairly relaxed affairs where you can really use what ever you like (safely that is).

I will be definitely looking into the Bradley Arms offerings.

I've also been recommended to consider a Patriot or an M14 for use at >500yds as the .223 will lose it's way a bit so plenty to keep me busy for a while.

Not so bud. I produced a nice little group well within the scoring ring on a Fig11 at 500.

Shame the wind got up and dumped it just off the edge of the centre target to the outrigger so they were mostly 2s but as a group I was chuffed to bits and it was a testament to the BAR15. Had I not known better I woudl have actually attributed it to a cross shooting PO bod with an AI!!!!!

Prone, Mag rested, 18" tube, using 77gr SMKs. A lot of the CSR people either use 77s or Mill surp. If the rifle likes it millsurp or GGG works well.

I also recently shot it in a club F class club for a giggle (Dorset Riflemen). The comments from my old oppos in the FTR side were part amusement part amazment, mag rested with a 4x Elcan DR I did not come last and kept them all well in teh black against F class targets at 300/600....not much wind though to be fair.

There is a lot to be said for 7.62x51, but, if you are going to use mill surp FFS try before you buy mate.

I shot a mates L1A1 a while back. It was nasty (Dont forget I trained on the things as a brat with the SUIT and Irons so there were some memories) and there is no way in hell I would have one based on that particular experience.

The mill ammo is quite hot, and a proportion of the gas is used to literally blow the bolt carrier back so that we dont have to.

With a straight pull all this energy goes into pushing the round down the range and flexing the case, so it can make extraction a pain (My AR does not like RG, its sticky, whereas it will extract beautifully with hand loads and some other mill surp).

The original cocking handle was also on the left, this heap had a damned great T handle on the right and it was a shocker, you would never get many rounds down the range in a rapid shoot and would have to come well out of the aim to battle with the thing. I would be interested to see how it performed with lighter loads though.

That said, they are all different, but whatever you do try before you buy. Its worth every minute.

I really think that if it were me (knowing what I know now which aint much) I would be looking at something 5.56x45 (Cheaper to feed, Probably better multi positional, capable enough out to 600 and less punishing after a couple of hunderd rounds).

That said again, some of the CSR lot (Not sure if its the PO or SO or both) have been doing great with LMTs (IIRC straight pull versions of the sharpshooters rifles, there are a few). The thing is that these have been designed to rack smoothly and easilly for speed, whereas a rifle that has been modified may not do so well.

All stuff to consider. Graham (Fallus on the CSR forum) shoots FALs as far as I know, he might offer some advice regarding FALs

Either way, enjoy it.

Thanks again Maggot.

The LH handle rules the FAL out for me (old motorcycle injury).
I was watching someone have a lot of difficulty with extraction on his Patriot the other day (that's why it has a handle on both sides I realised - again impossible for me to use as I have little strength in my left arm).

Back to the BAR15 then really - I am being urged to consider an M14 though.
I've had plenty of fun with a borrowed SGC AR and like it. I'm assuming it is lighter than most - which again would be a boon for firing standing due to the issues with my left arm. I certainly won't be hanging a load of extra tat from it.

I'll see if I can try a few others out though.

BTW what is SUIT & Irons?

rattlesocks wrote:Thanks again Maggot.

The LH handle rules the FAL out for me (old motorcycle injury).
I was watching someone have a lot of difficulty with extraction on his Patriot the other day (that's why it has a handle on both sides I realised - again impossible for me to use as I have little strength in my left arm).

Back to the BAR15 then really - I am being urged to consider an M14 though.
I've had plenty of fun with a borrowed SGC AR and like it. I'm assuming it is lighter than most - which again would be a boon for firing standing due to the issues with my left arm. I certainly won't be hanging a load of extra tat from it.

I'll see if I can try a few others out though.

BTW what is SUIT & Irons?

That was the case with the L1A1, the original cocking lever was folding on the left. This thing had a dirty great T handle on the right and you needed it.

Thing is unless you had a stoppage there was no need to extract a fired case with the functioning rifle as gas did it all, you just needed to chamber one which the spring did well....no need or ability to forward assist that one. If you got a stoppage it was more likley to be a missfire, although the gas ports did foul up but you could usually turn the gas up for a while.

I guess your problem might be that having to support the rifle with the left will leave you battling with the right hand trying to cycle the damned thing.

If you have a knackered left arm perhaps consider trying a single point sling out later on. It may help support the rifle, it certainly works with smaller cadets and No8s.

SUIT was the forerunner to the SUSAT on the L85/86A2 Sight Unit Infantry Trilux Rather than Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux. Irons, iron sights. Fixed post front sight (adjusted by undoing a pointed grub screw and rotating the thing on the L1 with the rear having a ramp sight with a pair of screws for windage).

I picked up a SUSAT last week for our L86....what a piece of crap!! Its been a while but its still....crap. No wonder they are using Elcans and Acogs, still it does a job I guess. I am lucky enough to have an Elcan Specter DR...its better than me thats for sure aaarggh

The M14 (unless its a new build) will have a lot of weight you dont need and again you have to replace the effects of gas, if you can, try one, but shoot a series of 2 and 10 and see how you get on.

Mark has built rifles for people with disabilities, he is a decent enough bloke as well. I reckon that IF you had a Bradley side lever conversion that could be perfectly fitted (along with the stock etc) you would almost not have to come off the pistol grip to flip another round in. I dont really, its a very quick laoding system.

The one ovveriding adavantage of the AR15 platform is that over here, you wont be worrying about gas blocks and things that are not needed being welded up. Since they are built from a selection of parts (either commercial or to the builders spec) they are as minimalist as you want.

They also do carbon fibre fore ends etc, so what Mark or anyone else could do to keep your weight down and sort the rifle out for you is probably more than you think. Not sure about re-profiling the barrel, again it depends how hot you intend getting it But you could lose some weight there.

The thing is, if you get bitten and want to compete, even if its just against yourself, an overweight stroppy lump is a misery to shoot. I put silly ammounts through mine when I first got it because it was (is) such a nice little rifle to shoot.

Another bonus (we would never have got away with this way back) with the AR is that you can get a very steady prone position mag resting.

The prolific use of brakes (they are compensators really) do a lot to keep the thing on target as well between shots.

If you want some junk to add, you can put optics or irons on and off till you are blue in the face with the various rail systems as well.

Also, regarding the 600yards plus, you wont normally be able to swap rifles in a comp if the range extends. I guess your wanting (Understandably) a mill type rifle rules out a remmy 700 etc for the longer stuff.

I've used the borrowed AR with a 2 point sling but not a single, I've used it with iron sights and optics. It felt easier to handle standing (for me) than a CZ .22. But that might have been because I was having more fun.

The idea of having it further lightened is intriguing. I don't really regard myself as disabled as such and don't want to show up at a comp with anything looking suspiciously non-standard...

...but; side lever? Do you mean like this?
https://youtu.be/X9fhEmufgbw

...I had no idea! This <<must>> be a stupid question: Why doesn't everyone use these?
It's definitely the answer for me - but I'm pretty sure I would get a lot of stick for using it.

Also for me having an adjustable stock will be useful (long ape-like arms).
This is now starting to turn into a plan...

I already have a decent .308 for scoped rifle comps - so this will just be coming out on SR days.

rattlesocks wrote:I've used the borrowed AR with a 2 point sling but not a single, I've used it with iron sights and optics. It felt easier to handle standing (for me) than a CZ .22. But that might have been because I was having more fun.

The idea of having it further lightened is intriguing. I don't really regard myself as disabled as such and don't want to show up at a comp with anything looking suspiciously non-standard...

...but; side lever? Do you mean like this?
https://youtu.be/X9fhEmufgbw

...I had no idea! This <<must>> be a stupid question: Why doesn't everyone use these?
It's definitely the answer for me - but I'm pretty sure I would get a lot of stick for using it.

Also for me having an adjustable stock will be useful (long ape-like arms).
This is now starting to turn into a plan...

I already have a decent .308 for scoped rifle comps - so this will just be coming out on SR days.

Right rattling chap (get used to rattles....ARs do a bit unless you can be arsed to sort it). I like that...Rattlesocks...yeah, nice one

Again I have muddied the waters..Twattoed gun will be all over me like a dose of Clamidia!!

No, not lever release (I think we have one guy that uses a mars). In effect it is a cocking handle/knob mounted on a rod or rail that is bolted directly to the bolt carrier.

I think that if the CSR route went down the "Need a lever/trigger release to be competitive" route it would probably trash the sport as the difference in price against any advanatge is disproportionate. The timings are adjusted to make it doable with straight pulls (its actually very easy to shoot the rapid too quickly). The skill still comes in getting on target and consistant shooting from all positions in all conditions. Trigger time and a brain really. You see few (if any) full houses much to the disgust of some who come accross thinking its a piece of duff only to find that they have to learn how to shoot in the wind, while being rocked by it, standing in a puddle, being lashed by the rain.

With this side handle (rather than lever I guess) config the original T handle is usually still in place as a guide for the bolt carrier, but you cock the rifle using this side handle. In the semi auto configuration the T handle is fine as you only cock it once, gas doing the rest, however.

The marksmanship principles define as far as possible not breaking your position. To re cock the T handle take time and means coming out of the position to grab the thing and put it back.

The T handle also wont "Forward assist" while the side lever will as it is connected directly to the bolt carrier, although as a rule if you let the bolt fly as you should there should be no need to forward assist but never say never.

Ideally, if it all fits, you can stay in the aim and literally flick the handle backwards with the trigger finger with your hand (or thumb) still behind the pistol grip to guide the hand back onto the pistol grip, a bit like the biathlon rifles. Its an action that works better in some positions than others and I found that I had to use the UBR to "Lengthen the pull" in order to stop me short stroking in the prone as I was having to move my right elbow backwards....so I moved the lot a few clicks forward, eye relief etc was fine and it works.

Its a really slick and clever system. One thing to be aware of is that the upper plastic cheek piece on the UBR might (probably will) foul the back end of the handle as it comes back. I am told you can move the cheep piece but I simply filed mine to fit and smoothed it out with wet & dry.

Its all about sewing machine running, particularly with some of the stages where you stay standing and shoot 2 or more rounds per exposure, you want to stay on target so the minimum messing about is great.

As regards looking standard...on the CSR field, such as I have seen it, there is no such thing as standard. There are all sorts of colours, shapes, some short rifles, some purple or red rifles, some with tube fore-ends, some with as close to M16A2 or 3 looks as they can get. Its what works and because of this people take a while to work it out...I am still struggling to walk upright let alone shoot straight

Quite a few actively try to look non military which is understandable. I am exe military and the scruffiest cabbage in the patch on the CSR mud bath.

Incidentally, I am 30% disabled on paper, all sorts shoot it and do well. Perhaps when you iron things out try a CSR experience day (Dont use the NRA ARs, they are shocking for CSR) or shoot a comp, you are always doubled up with a safety who has shot them before anyway, you just need to be able to amble 100yds.

http://www.bradleyarms.com/pictures.html

Another idea might be to attend a CSR shoot and see whats going on, plenty to look at a many of the builders are shooters as well.

Maggot have you got a link you can post with some pictures of this lever business please?
I'm clearly not getting it.

Also I'm conflicted - what is worse - having a 'posy black rifle' or being bothered enough about it to paint it a daft colour?

When I said 'non-standard' I really was thinking about stick supports and stuff like that - things that would make opponents not really care how well you do - it's just irrelevent anyway.

Need to re-read your post to pick up on a couple of other things really - but I have to pop out.
I need to understand this side lever conversion first - I can't find it on the Bradley site.

It's all very interesting -thanks.