Indoor full power full-bore rifle ranges UK

[nickb834]

What about a full-bore bay in a standard 20-25m indoor range? For testing function, sound moderators, muzzle brakes, getting a basic zero?

Function yeah in as much as chamber / go/nogo with a live round etc - but you can achieve that with an inert round you assemble or even a downloaded round - subject to any funny business in club rules about FMJ's etc.

Sound moderators / muzzle brakes / basic zero would require a full power round - but then the first would sound significantly different indoors I would have thought - any SPL testing would be invalidated (not sure about peak but would expect certainly for duration due to reflection).

Muzzle brakes - yeah fair enough reduced recoil could be done.

Basic zero again yeah I suppose - but that said windage only really, unless of course the load / barrel combo was understood well enough such that you understood at 100mards the fall of shoot would be X if it was Y at 25m. Competent shooters should be able to achieve this.

The catch with this last one - cost / effort: for one lane you may aswell do all of them (my local club has 2 x 5 lane ranges for eg - so do all of them on one range potentially) and for a minimal benefit at that.

Also - it's not much fun shooting next to someone shooting supersonics at that velocity indoors, it mucks up my sinus' something wrotten!

[dromia]

OK they told me they were still certifying ranges when I had the misfortune to speak with them last year, however after all the lies they told me then that could have been a porky too.

I know that there is no legal requirement as you say however a certified range MoD when they did it for example is handy for the insurance.

I am interested as to how the NRA/NSRA insurance works now if you self certify, what do they ask to see to ensure that their insurance cover the range and the activities therein.

[nickb834]

OK they told me they were still certifying ranges when I had the misfortune to speak with them last year, however after all the lies they told me then that could have been a porky too.

I couldn't possibly comment on the porkies that the NSRA tells (allegedly!)

I know that there is no legal requirement as you say however a certified range MoD when they did it for example is handy for the insurance.

Absolutly - we still have ours, arguably it's a good measure of the range as it was at the time it was certified - assuming there have been no changes.

I am interested as to how the NRA/NSRA insurance works now if you self certify, what do they ask to see to ensure that their insurance cover the range and the activities therein.

That is an interesting question - I should imagine they'd happily take your money and quibble later!. There is a range that I think Mike Jakes helped with that would have had to go through that process - it might be this one but my memory is a little fuzzy on that: http://www.phoenix-shooting-sports.co.uk I have no relationship with that club (no ill will or anything - just never spoke to them).

[dromia]

Do you know when they, the NRA/NSRA, actually stopped certifying ranges?

Also do you know of where the self certifying ranges obtained their insurance cover?

[nickb834]

I can't say for sure when the NRA stopped (nor the NSRA) but this is the info I have from Mike Jakes circa Dec '14:

Regarding sign-off of the range, only generic direction is available from HSE contained in Home Office circular 031/2006 from 23 October 2006. Optional inspection by the NRA typically costs £150 plus travel expenses and they undertake this against the design criteria set out in JSP 403 Part 2 Chapter 2 (which should also inform your testing). However, please be aware that NRA approval does not certify that the range is safe and that they bear no associated liability: To quote Iain Robertson (NRA Liaison Manager), the inspection “only reflects their [NRA] opinion and you will still have to self-assert that the range is safe” to your club insurers i.e. you (the club) remain liable and you have to determine what testing is required for you to do this confidently. Clearly we would advise you in this regard should you want to use our services and if we were to undertake the project as a turnkey installation we would issue a range safety certificate on successful completion of the build and subsequent testing. Any proven defects in our design would be covered by our liability insurance as would any installation services provided by us.

I feel a little bad posting what Mike has said as he can't provide further comment nor clarify - hopefully other FB'uk'rs will be mindful of that and tread lightly.

[nickb834]

This is JSP 403 - a wieghty tome:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... ges-safety

Which encompasses:

Range Safety Policy Letters: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... cy-letters

Range Safety Notices: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ty-notices

Range Advice Notes: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... vice-notes

JSP 403 Volumes 1,2,3,4:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... management
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 3-volume-2
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... and-ranges
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 3-volume-4


Volume 3 looks like it might actually be interesting!

[shotgun sam]

Interesting about the Sign Off situation.

[Blackstuff]

What about a full-bore bay in a standard 20-25m indoor range? For testing function, sound moderators, muzzle brakes, getting a basic zero?

Function yeah in as much as chamber / go/nogo with a live round etc - but you can achieve that with an inert round you assemble or even a downloaded round - subject to any funny business in club rules about FMJ's etc.

Function as in operating the gun, not everything is bolt action you know!

Sound moderators / muzzle brakes / basic zero would require a full power round - but then the first would sound significantly different indoors I would have thought - any SPL testing would be invalidated (not sure about peak but would expect certainly for duration due to reflection).

You may be testing the fit of sound moderator, some require adjustment, and some have such small tolerances and its better not to blow the end of it off on MOD land Its also good to check to see if they have any tightening/loosening issues

Muzzle brakes - yeah fair enough reduced recoil could be done.

Basic zero again yeah I suppose - but that said windage only really, unless of course the load / barrel combo was understood well enough such that you understood at 100mards the fall of shoot would be X if it was Y at 25m. Competent shooters should be able to achieve this.

Getting the gun on paper at 25m is going to get you 95% of the way at 100m. I've seen some people turn up at the outdoor club and not hit the backing boards, let alone the target put on them! That said there are many guns you can't bore sight.

The catch with this last one - cost / effort: for one lane you may aswell do all of them (my local club has 2 x 5 lane ranges for eg - so do all of them on one range potentially) and for a minimal benefit at that.

Also - it's not much fun shooting next to someone shooting supersonics at that velocity indoors, it mucks up my sinus' something wrotten!

Anyway the main issue i have is outdoor range availability is limited to 1 day per month, which invariably is a bloody Sunday morning on a wind swept gravel trap and at this time of year the pi$$ing rain. I've had a sound moderator to test since October and have missed the November shoot because of a wedding, i had to emergency RCO at the December meeting, i've got a two-gun practical match on the January date and the February date is the day after my birthday. GGrrrr.

I think the basic jist seems to be cost/benefit, which is what i expected.

[nickb834]

What about one of the tunnel ranges - sure there's one over your side of the Penines (looking for it now for you) otherwise there's Calton Moor in Derbyshire you could try?:

http://www.caltonmoorrange.com/

[saddler]

Nearest indoor option (for Blackstuff) for now is either Stead Hall near Harrogate, or the range I previously mentioned in Livingston