The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

I'm sure there is, its just finding it, as some of the threads and their topics seem to wander all over the place ( I know I'm as guilty of that as much as anyone before you say )

thank you for the advice, that gives me a nice starting point. I'm just always a bit cautious when it comes to swapping boolit weights and powders.

I'm just after something that isn't 8"-a foot high at 100 yrds :)

I find searches rarely give instant results, as it says, they usually require a bit of searching.

The beauty with cast bullets at these low velocities is that they can give better zero's at the shorter distances with rifles that have their sights set for 2/300 or so yards with military ball.

bradaz11 wrote:I've looked at the ed harris article, what would you do, if you wanted to shoot some of dodgyrog's gas checked 303's (not sure on weight atm, as not at home) at 100 yards? (also, I suppose same question for his k31 boolit loads)

I would prefer to use a vhit powder, or bullseye if possible, but could use unique if pushed.

from the article it says 150gr plain based, 7gr bullseye for 100yrd, what difference does it make to loadings if it is gas checked?

We looked into doing this & have a 308win load that is under the Muzzle Velocity & Energy for Thorn range BUT the Ass that wrote the range cert wrote it in such a way we cant use CF rifle of 303/7.62 cal prone even though we can use larger cals standing, even with higher energies! It specifically says CF rifles of calibre such as 7.62 are prohibited because of their higher energies' (bo...cks) but the range owners interpret that as even if down loaded, but then the NSRA haven't got a clue about BP & down loading.

I asked the range owners if clubs could contribute to a fund to get the range cert written properly using a competent range certification expert, get it redefined about Energy/MV & target positions but they run scared of the NSRA cert body. The range could easily accommodate down loaded ~30cal target & service rifle, speed steels, knockdowns, even turning & running boar targets, LBR etc. But No.

The NSRA are not fit to certify ranges beyond 22rf and air guns, why on earth anyone in their right mind would use them to certify full bore ranges is beyond me, their poorly written range certificates show that they know as much about the subject as my arse does about snipe shooting.

hitchphil wrote:
We looked into doing this & have a 308win load that is under the Muzzle Velocity & Energy for Thorn range BUT the Ass that wrote the range cert wrote it in such a way we cant use CF rifle of 303/7.62 cal prone even though we can use larger cals standing, even with higher energies! It specifically says CF rifles of calibre such as 7.62 are prohibited because of their higher energies' (bo...cks) but the range owners interpret that as even if down loaded, but then the NSRA haven't got a clue about BP & down loading.

I asked the range owners if clubs could contribute to a fund to get the range cert written properly using a competent range certification expert, get it redefined about Energy/MV & target positions but they run scared of the NSRA cert body. The range could easily accommodate down loaded ~30cal target & service rifle, speed steels, knockdowns, even turning & running boar targets, LBR etc. But No.

I know, its such a shame, shooting some steels would be quite fun, rather than having to trudge up to the 100yrd to change cards.

I've even been informed that using my nitro muzzleloaders is now going to be a no no as it says blackpowder on the cert, even though you can use carbines.

just to set your mind at ease, this would be for use at Oundle/ Barnwell range, not at Thorn, or wherever I end up once I move house, but I appriciate the reminder

dromia wrote:The NSRA are not fit to certify ranges beyond 22rf and air guns, why on earth anyone in their right mind would use them to certify full bore ranges is beyond me, their poorly written range certificates show that they know as much about the subject as my arse does about snipe shooting.

In this case because it was for decades a .22 club / county NSRA type range. So they go with the NSRA's man only & dont recognise others. They got it expanded for 'Pistol calibres' & BP with energies below 1030 J & MV below 778 m/s. But the conditions written in prohibit much & dont make any sense even to another range cert expert who reviewed the cert for me....

...... e.g. It also says "all firing to take place from the constructed FP" thats @ 100yds, so you cant shoot LBR at 25 or even 50m by walking up range where the safety angles are good to JSP 403? because of what .... you might be stupid enough to have people shooting from 100yds at targets 25yds down range behind you? rubbish!

I was also refused a safety case for speed steels because our club includes Scouts! & 22 semi auto is indiscriminate firing? The NSRA Range cert authoritarian only recognises NSRA SmallBoring shooting & can only rationalise that.

I dont think any NGO should certificate ranges, it should be an independent body even if no longer part of DOSG/MOD & private.

bradaz11 wrote:

hitchphil wrote:
We looked into doing this & have a 308win load that is under the Muzzle Velocity & Energy for Thorn range BUT the Ass that wrote the range cert wrote it in such a way we cant use CF rifle of 303/7.62 cal prone even though we can use larger cals standing, even with higher energies! It specifically says CF rifles of calibre such as 7.62 are prohibited because of their higher energies' (bo...cks) but the range owners interpret that as even if down loaded, but then the NSRA haven't got a clue about BP & down loading.

I asked the range owners if clubs could contribute to a fund to get the range cert written properly using a competent range certification expert, get it redefined about Energy/MV & target positions but they run scared of the NSRA cert body. The range could easily accommodate down loaded ~30cal target & service rifle, speed steels, knockdowns, even turning & running boar targets, LBR etc. But No.

I know, its such a shame, shooting some steels would be quite fun, rather than having to trudge up to the 100yrd to change cards.

I've even been informed that using my nitro muzzleloaders is now going to be a no no as it says blackpowder on the cert, even though you can use carbines.

just to set your mind at ease, this would be for use at Oundle/ Barnwell range, not at Thorn, or wherever I end up once I move house, but I appriciate the reminder

What a load of crud. I have the range report & cert - PM me an email & I will send it to you. I dont believe it says 'BP only' at all. Push back & tell them to get a proper range certification expert in who knows what other shooting is. I ignore most of it, our insurance is NRA not NSRA so covers any shooting within the cover, certificated range limits & its advice. I believe we are within that advice so our insurance applies. I have also had 'your club needs NSRA insurance' too, more rubbish. A HO approved club needs insurance any properly constituted insurer can provide it.

We had the ranges guy tell me that downloading was irresponsible & dangerous! hence why the NSRA banned it?, another load of crud. Virtually all 38spl/357 competition rounds are downloaded from weapon std rounds by design. People have been home & down loading for decades. Again what they & the NSRA dont understand they try to ban, such thinking is a menace to shooting.

phil,

things were getting a bit heated the other night, I was saying we should get recertified, but i think I may have misunderstood something previously mentioned on here, or via others, as I thought individual clubs had their own range cert and not just the all encompassing range cert. I keep saying we should get the range looked at by a NRA range assessor, but keep being talked to like a small petulant child, the guys running our club are too scared to push for more, in case we are told no, and then have other things taken away from us, like cartridge use and blackpowder. I gues this is the issue with not owning your own range, they see it as we have to do as the council and Steve Beadle decree.
hell, I was told I couldn't shoot the mateba I bought down the range at first, I then pointed out it is on my ticket as a rifle, and as such can be used same as any other. It also meant it could be used by other club members. they then decided that I could not fire it pistol style, I had to have a hand on the barrel and one on the grip, rather than remove the buttstock conection it has (still maintaining 12/24") and shoot weaver style etc, as LBR's are not allowed... when I pointed out that it is still a rifle, i've just removed the stock piece, this fell on deaf ears, even mentioning that putting a 10/22 in a side folding stock, and shooting it folded is perfectly fine, why wouldn't this be... too much hassle, and not enjoyable, so I ended up selling it

The use of the word downloaded is also meaningless.

Downloaded form what, no two makes of factory ammunition will give the same velocity. So the only fixed point would be the SAAMI/CIP maximums for the calibre, most factory ammunition will be less than that so that means it is "downloaded" therefore that ammunition is irresponsible and dangerous by the NSRA definition.

22 subsonic ammunition is obviously downloaded so is it dangerous and irresponsible to shoot that?

Bunch of bloody cretins.

The WRI would do better range certificates than the NSRA idiots.

All a range certificate needs to do as regards ammunition used on a range is set the maximum muzzle velocity and muzzle energy and state that all ammunition used comes within those limits.

Downloaded!
I bet nobody in an enclosed range would have fillings or eardrums left if we all stuck to the original Elmer Keith recipes for the 357 & 44 magnum cartridges....and the guns would fall apart at a rapid rate too due to the maximum pressures.

It'd be a hoot