The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

could you shoot plastic bbs out of a shotgun cartridge? or would they melt etc in the cup?

or even some sort of clay/resin bbs?

Blackstuff wrote:

nickb834 wrote:

Blackstuff wrote:Hopefully the result achieved in norway may go someway to sway them away, otherwise it'll be the end of PSG

Not necessarily - it just means you won't be shooting steel at steel, there are other cartridge options (albeit slightly more expensive and less common) but, there are other options for the plates.

It may of course mean that the plates have a shorter life, aren't as easily resettable, don't comply with IPSC (yet) but none of it means the end of PSG!

Now, given that they're talking about Lead shot - how long before they decide that centrefire ammo needs a coat of looking at

And the award, for understatement of the year, goes to....... NICKB834 clapclap

Last time i looked for it when was in my nearest RFD a box of tungsten ammo was about £35 (at least 5 years ago). And now looking at Just Cartridges price list the cheapest non-toxic cartridges are TMX @ £28.50 per 25, the average being well over £40. Now i know there are a few millionnaires on the PSG circuit, but i very much doubt that 90% of those currently shooting could afford a x10 cost increase!! In its current format, a lead ban is the death of PSG.

The only way i could see it surviving would be to somehow create plates/targets that could be shot with steel but considering many PSG locations are quarries/hard surfaced i doubt it would be very safe still.

haha - fair enough non lead, non steel is more expensive than I had suggested but to quote 10x is just alarmist babble.

For eg - if I shoot eley first 28g lead shot at 6.15 a box of 25, compared to say any of the bismuth cartridges here: http://www.justcartridges.com/cartridge ... n%20Toxic/ then they're circa the 35 quid, so that's not quote 10x more expensive is it.

I'd wager you'd see the prices of non toxic shot plummet should lead be phased out - supply and demand and all that.

Short version - stop panicking, PSG isn't dead.

A number of emails between Defra and members of the LAG committee have been put up on the Defra web site they are all be found from this link.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... tion-group

It does not look good for shooters. Not only a ban on lead shot for game and pigeon shooting but now sporting and target rifle shooting.

Along with the minutes I got for the lead Shot steering group and the minutes of the LAG on line shooter have to start making a stand and say NO to any lead ban.

I have a Save Our lead Shot group on facebook with lots of information.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/386424074747289/

Together we can win.

Blackstuff wrote: otherwise it'll be the end of PSG

Doesn't have to be - Lead contaminates the environment...but only certain environments are protected; so if you have an area of land that isn't protected, isn't an SSSI, isn't sitting over a major aquifer or is close to a surface water etc., then you can stick as much lead in it as you like...

...however you could not later sell the land for any kind of development without remediating the site...

...this can actually help some existing shooting sites, as the cost of remediation makes development non-viable.

Blackstuff wrote:Oh i've no doubt this is more politically than environmentally motivated

No it is environmentally motivated...it's just that it's not hard to convince some members of Government against shooters.

As far as I'm aware environmentalists aren't looking to spoil shooting sports (you'd be amazed how many 'environmentalists' shoot), but are genuinely trying to protect the type of habitats that quite frankly need protecting...

...I'm not against wild-fouling, but I don't see why they shouldn't have to use non-toxic shot...many of the best shooting areas are vulnerable environments...also, while I do sympathise about the cost of ammo wild-foulers and hunters don't need (unless they're greedy or a crap shot) to use as much ammo as a sports shooter.

The best thing for everyone, shooters and environmentalists, would be to get the price of a decent alternative shot down to a reasonable price...

Effing ecologists..... Boil my pi$$, they do...!!!

Hey, how about we set up an e-petion to stop the lead ban?

You know, similar to the .22 pistol petition that every shotgunner signed, right?...

"When they came for the...."

nickb834 wrote: haha - fair enough non lead, non steel is more expensive than I had suggested but to quote 10x is just alarmist babble.

For eg - if I shoot eley first 28g lead shot at 6.15 a box of 25, compared to say any of the bismuth cartridges here: http://www.justcartridges.com/cartridge ... n%20Toxic/ then they're circa the 35 quid, so that's not quote 10x more expensive is it.

I'd wager you'd see the prices of non toxic shot plummet should lead be phased out - supply and demand and all that.

Short version - stop panicking, PSG isn't dead.

You need to get your cartridges from somewhere else if you're paying that for Eley First! Even if you use your way over price £6.15 for the lead cartridges Vs the £35 bismuth cartridges thats still well over FIVE times the price!! Thats like saying it'd be fine if petrol suddenly went from £1.10 p/l to £6.26 p/l!! Sorry but thats me and everyone i know out of the game IF a lead ban comes in.

And i may have a limited knowledge of economics but with supply and demand usually an increase in demand (for non-toxic in this instance) is rapidly followed by an explosive increase in price, not a decrease!

Hopefully this nonsense won't go anywhere though

Being purely selfish, for slugs the non-lead alternative of choice (of Brenneke) seems to be tin. Lets see how much that is.

LME price for lead- $1834/tonne
LME price for tin- $18220/tonne

Knock a third off the price as their tin slugs are only 19gram. Add a lot because this talk of "increased demand" is pretty much total bo...cks at an international level if we're the only country to ban.

Not sure I fancy reloading 300 shotgun shells every couple of weeks to keep the costs down!
What about those using shotguns as part of their job? The costs will just get passed on to the public and we can pay even more for saving the world