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Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:36 am
by zanes
Gazoo wrote:
We had a very bad case in Durham a couple of years ago of several women murdered by a known domestic (even convicted I think) abuser. After that Durham Constabulary got their panties well and truly in a bunch but who can blame them as everyone was shouting about his history and blaming them (they know what we feel like now) for some mad sadistic git killing his wife and mother in law.
In fairness, that case, IIRC, was completely different to "bloke with no previous has a DV accusation made" which is the situation in Essex.
I believe the FEO dealing with his application even wrote something along the lines of "Has previous [CONVICTION] for assault- do we have enough to refuse on grounds of public safety?" on his application pack, and was overruled by a "higher up".
That's why they were (rightfully) criticised. I don't think "20/20" hindsight really gives an advantage- he was a known "bad un", Durham dropped a bollock on it and responded by trying to blame everyone but themselves.
However, I wouldn't argue with the rest of what you wrote.
Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:49 am
by Triffid
The IPPC report into the Durham police's actions is here and makes interesting reading.
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/fi ... report.PDF
With the recent case in Farnham (Lowe), where confiscated shotguns were returned by Surrey Police and subsequently used to murder the man's partner and step-daughter, I think the spotlight is truly on all Police firearms licensing departments to make pro-active decisions to remove firearms where-ever there is any concern.
Like's been said, we have to be squeaky-clean or face revocation.
Triffid
Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:59 pm
by Fedaykin
Quarters wrote:I might not be right here but did the Hungerford and Dunblane shooters have criminal records?
I'm guessing not so should they have been allowed to keep their firearms then Joe?
The police are in a lose lose situation here. If they take guns away without a crime being committed then some shooters shout "police state". If people giving cause for concern, and domestic violence is a big cause for concern, don't have guns taken away the police are to blame for not acting quick enough,
Yup, wasn't Hamilton a notorious Barrack-room lawyer who tied up significant resources at what was a small force with petty complaints and even managed to get a Policeman suspended for several months. This led to the force shying away from taking away his guns despite recommendations from Pistol club members and serving Police officers.
Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:42 pm
by ordnance
If they remove firearms from someone that is having a domestic dispute that is intent on murdering their partner etc, will they just not use a knife or some other way of killing.
Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:46 pm
by Quarters
I'm not sure what you're saying Ordnance.
Do you mean that if a person with an FAC is planning to commit murder the police should say there's no point in taking the guns he'll kill her anyway?
Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:04 pm
by Gazoo
ordnance wrote:If they remove firearms from someone that is having a domestic dispute that is intent on murdering their partner etc, will they just not use a knife or some other way of killing.
I know what you are saying but of course the cops have to deprive people who they think will commit violence with guns of the where with all to do it. They have a heavy duty of care.
The sad fact is, if he did kill his wife after the cops confiscate his guns, the news papers will scream " GUN NUT KILLS WIFE (with knife) POLICE DID NOTHING EVEN THOUGH THEY SUSPECTED HE WAS DANGEROUS AND TOOK GUNS OFF HIM".
The problem we face is nutters dragging us down with them.
Re: Essex Police takes guns from suspected domestic abusers
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:19 pm
by ordnance
Do you mean that if a person with an FAC is planning to commit murder the police should say there's no point in taking the guns he'll kill her anyway?
If the police think someone is planning to commit murder they should arrest and charge them. If they don't have enough evidence then they should take their firearms, after presenting the evidence to a judge or similar and him agreeing with their course of action. But if they are planning to murder someone taking their firearms won't stop them all it will do is prevent the using a firearm to commit the murder.
Table of Number of Murders / Homicides in ENGLAND and WALES 2001 to 2012 - with Gun Murder Statistics per year. 2007/8 772
(of which 53 were caused by a gun / firearm) •In 2012/13, more than two-thirds of homicide victims were male.
•The most common method of killing continues to be by sharp instrument.
•Female victims were more likely to be killed by someone they knew. In most of these cases, female victims were killed by a current or ex-partner while male victims were most likely to be killed by a friend or acquaintance.
•Victims aged under 16 years were most likely to be killed by a parent or step-parent.
Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12
There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).