The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Did you not make a colour photocopy of your fac before sending it in for the variation? If not why not? I always copy everything before submitting documentation, that way I have a record and can check the new fac against the old one for cock-ups.
My guns and fac (or photocopy if fac away for renewal or variation) always travel together.

haha, of course I got a copy of it all before it got sent...!

I don#'t want them taking stuff off and then claiming it was never there..!

Mr_Logic wrote:A constable may demand the production of the certificate. That doesn't mean I have to have it with me - I can produce the original if the Officer accompanies me to my home, and a photocopy demonstrates under 48.4.2 that the person is entitled to those firearms.

So like I said, no offence not to have the FAC with me.

Yeah i'm sure if i got pulled over in Dartford a copper would give me a 6hr lift back to Durham to have a goosey :lol: It is an offence if the requirements in the act cannot be satisfied (its in the act in black and white if the officer wants to be arsey about it), but as already said no one has ever been prosecuted for that offence alone (according to BASC)

Gaz wrote:Does that work like driving licences, where you can "produce" it at a police station after the event?

Yes, but in the mean time the police will confiscate your guns and take them to the nearest police station with the appropriate storage facility to where you were pulled. You then have to go back to that station with your original certificate. Not much hassle if you're in the same/an adjoining county, but not much fun it you're at the other end of the country.

Blackstuff wrote:

Gaz wrote:Does that work like driving licences, where you can "produce" it at a police station after the event?

Yes, but in the mean time the police will confiscate your guns and take them to the nearest police station with the appropriate storage facility to where you were pulled. You then have to go back to that station with your original certificate. Not much hassle if you're in the same/an adjoining county, but not much fun it you're at the other end of the country.

Not at all out of the realms of possibility given the sparse nature of ranges in this country either...

Exactly why i always have my original certs with me when transporting guns (when i have the certs in my possession that is). Saying that i think its highly unlikely that you'd get your guns taken from you for not producing if you're not up to something suspect and/or you don't go into a "ah know ma rights" tirade if pulled over.

Not the same but sorta; I shot a match near Manchester a few months back and my FAC was in for renewal at the time, didn't realise you had to put your FAC number on the register when signing in, so potentially i could've made a 2 hr trip for nothing. Fortunately i'm sad enough to know my FAC number off by heart so i could still play Not sure if being able to recite my FAC number to the police would help though, unless i suppose i didn't have my cart and also didn't have any other ID

Blackstuff - the offence is to fail to comply. If I can produce but I need to go and get it, I am still complying. I am doing everything the Constable has asked of me; ergo, I am complying with his request.

Also, the section on confiscation is if you can't prove that the firearms are lawfully held. The onus is on you, but a photocopy with matching serial number etc proves the lawful possession; any discrepancy or further check can be verified by PNC.

Taken from another thread

20series wrote:I had a situation when away up in Warrington a few years ago, we asked the Hotel reception (Premier Inn) if it was ok to put our rifles (.22 smallbore target) in our room and for her to keep the bolts in the Hotel safe, "yep no probs my dad had guns when I was a kid...etc)

We went to get some food and a drink in the adjacent pub and about two hours later she came over to ask us to go back to the reception, I laughed and said let me guess the police! she blushed up and said yes, we went in (whiskey glass in hand) and the bobby saw me and just said "Mr Collick which rifle do you have with you?" I said my Anschutz and he said that's cool have a nice evening!.

Obviously they'd been on the FAC database and got the info from there, all very proffesional and easy.

The next morning when the manager was in she told us the young lady had been threatened previously with "I'm not paying I'll get my gun from the car!!".

Alan

Mr_Logic wrote:Blackstuff - the offence is to fail to comply. If I can produce but I need to go and get it, I am still complying. I am doing everything the Constable has asked of me; ergo, I am complying with his request.

Also, the section on confiscation is if you can't prove that the firearms are lawfully held. The onus is on you, but a photocopy with matching serial number etc proves the lawful possession; any discrepancy or further check can be verified by PNC.

You can give examples for how to comply so that no offence is committed all you like but its still technically an offence that you can be prosecuted for.

E.g. Person A pulled over has legally owned guns in the car but no certificate, no copy, doesn't know their ticket number off by heart etc etc etc and isn't within a reasonable travelling distance from the cert. Person A then gets arsey with the copper which the officer takes umbridge with and decides to give Person A 'the business'. Person A has failed to comply with the officers request and has therefore committed an offence by not being able (and willing) to provide their original certificate there and then, and because of the 'heated' debate' the option of confiscation and later providiing the documents isn't given. Person A is then arrested by the officer and taken to the station. The case never goes to court because it was found that it was unreasonable to not allow Person A the chance to provide his FAC within X time limit. Hence why no prosecutions have ever occured for this offence on its own. It HAS been prosecuted in conjunction with other offences - according to BASC. Jesus.

Mr_Logic wrote:A constable may demand the production of the certificate. That doesn't mean I have to have it with me - I can produce the original if the Officer accompanies me to my home, and a photocopy demonstrates under 48.4.2 that the person is entitled to those firearms.

So like I said, no offence not to have the FAC with me.

The offence is clearly layed down. Produce it on demand or you'd be going to get it on your own and your guns would be going to the station if the constable couldn't be satisfied through other means....

Photocopy? A constable may decide, within the realms of operational discretion that it demonstrates lawful possession, but don't expect it carte blanche...

A photocopy of your driving licence wouldn't suffice under the terms of the Road Traffic Act, nor would a photocopy of your passport see UKBA letting you air side...

You're not expected to send your driving licence in every time you buy or sell a car or want more fuel are you? There has to be some allowance for following the system.