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Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:52 pm
by Tommygunn
bradaz11 wrote:
that doesn't relate to the OP question? he is saying that the club does not allow the use of the LBR/P on their range as does not fall into a categorization.
(unless you are saying that it is a rifle according to that, and therefore able to be used as such??)
Erm, no, I think it goes to the nub of the problem - as I read it it's the police saying the OP cannot use it, rather than the club, as it isn't a 'rifle'. This would appear to have been tested in the courts and found that LBP fulfill the criteria of 'rifle' in law, ergo they should be permitted on the club range.
Perhaps, (politely), pointing the force in question toward the ruling might be of use?
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:02 am
by Demonic69
Rifling in the barrel, longer barrel than a few inches... Sounds like a rifle to me!
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:54 am
by 20series
Demonic69 wrote:Rifling in the barrel, longer barrel than a few inches... Sounds like a rifle to me!
Stupid boy Pike!
stop using common sense and logic sign01 sign01
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:19 am
by Robert303
If your club is affiliated to the NRA / NSRA tell the secretary to get his arse in gear and to contact them with a request that they straighten out your local police. The three categories you mention are for CLUB approval NOT Range approval. If the police still get sticky tell your club sec to get a revised club approval to include LBPs & LBRs.
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:49 am
by bradaz11
Tommygunn wrote:
Erm, no, I think it goes to the nub of the problem - as I read it it's the police saying the OP cannot use it, rather than the club, as it isn't a 'rifle'. This would appear to have been tested in the courts and found that LBP fulfill the criteria of 'rifle' in law, ergo they should be permitted on the club range.
Perhaps, (politely), pointing the force in question toward the ruling might be of use?
sorry, i misread OP's reference to the police. and got a bit caught up in the fact that we are not aloowed to shoot LBR/P at our club due to some odd semantics.
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:15 pm
by Oldskool
sysreq wrote:I have been looking at purchasing a .22 LBP and have run into an issue which I was wondering if anyone else had come across.
It seems that the local Firearms Licensing Team have told my club that as a LBP is not classified as a Rifle or Pistol it does not fall into a category for range approval (Small Bore Rifle – Full Bore Rifle – Muzzle-loading Pistol) therefore may not be used on Home Office Approved ranges i.e. my club indoor range. wtfwtf
The only information I can find on this is
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... t_2014.pdf Section 13.49
And
http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/genera ... p?site=NRA Club Free Firearms Certificates section
Both of which discuss that you cannot hold a LBP on the
clubs free FAC, but an individual can hold a LBP as long as they have facilities to use it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... t_2014.pdf Section 13.50 seems to cover the facilities for use of a firearm for target shooting
"An applicant should have access to appropriate ranges for the types of firearm concerned. The National Small-bore Rifle Association and the National Rifle Association (or similar organisations) will have inspection and approval systems in place for ranges run by their club members. Independent assessments are also viable."
So as long as my club is approved and inspected by the NRA or NSRA and is certified for the calibre etc involved I cannot see how they can say LBP cannot be used on Home Office Approved ranges. It almost seems that they are confusing Club held firearms restrictions and the use of individually held weapons.
So, after all that has anyone heard of anything like this? sign85
Matt
All decisions by the licencing unit are capable of appeal . Clearly what they are suggesting is nonsense - what clubs and groups are you a member of - you should formulate any reply thru them for maximum effect .
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:02 pm
by Brookers
I think HO club aproval is being mixed up with range aproval.
LBP's and LBR's are at the moment not recognised as classes of Firearms for HO approved clubs. The case refered to earlier was specific to a Buckmark that was built from a Buckmark Rifle and IIRC the ruling was for Buckmark LBP's.
A range used to be certified/approved by the Army and we used to have the condition on our FAC's to use the firearms on approved ranges. The approval was always given as a maximum energy NOT a particular type of Firearm.
These days we dont have "approved" ranges, instead we have the condition of "used on a range wth insurance in place". So a range can now be self certified by the club or a club can engage a Range Designer with the appropriate qualifiactions to "approve" a range. There are a few about and if you need one drop me a PM as I'm using one for the range I'm building for my club.
So it will depend on how the club has worded their risk assesments and range orders to get the necessary insurance in place. If your club has thought about it they shouldn't have mentioned any specific type of firearm. They should have gone for a simple energy limit.
HTH
Brookers
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:10 am
by Countryman
Excellent post Brookers and glad I found it before replying.
On the money.
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:07 pm
by sysreq
Thank Brookers,
Your post agrees with what I thought, and our range has a maximum energy. I think that there may be also an maximum allowed calibre, but, as it is at least .44 it is not relevant.
I know the secretary has been speaking to the NSRA, so, hopefully something positive with come out before the next ice age.
What's annoying is the lack of consistency and the fact that they are happy for me to have a LBP on my certificate, when they know I cannot shoot it, therefore don't have good reason, therefore shouldn't have it in the first place..... go figure
Re: LBP and Home Office ranges
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:13 pm
by IsleShoot
It's also worth noting that in the 1968 firearms act (as amended) firearms are only refered to as short arms or long arms. LBP/R's as they are colloquially known meet the 12/24 rule and are therefore Section 1 long arms, so as long as you can demonstrate good reason to possess/aquire your local licensing dept should have no reason to object.
As mentioned before Wells v's Regina tested this but did not set precident so again should your local FLD challenge you it's definitely worth raising.