Firearms licensing costs discussed in Parliament

[dromia]

Would be interesting to see the position of the national bodies, our representatives, on this.

I believe, but stand to be corrected, that it is the BSSC is the organisation involved in this, I wonder what their position is?

I can't find anything on their sparse web site but I wouldn't be surprised if they accept the need for fees as a given and are arguing over the amount.

I wonder how they represent us if they or their constituent bodies don't ask us for our views?

[Demonic69]

As I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown of the actual costs. Unless there are roughly 10 full-time employees working, only on firearms, per force, on £44k average I don't see the cost coming anywhere near what they "estimate"

[Maggot]

Bit of a hot potato this.

I see both sides of the fence and to be honest I am sick to death of people banging on about Police this, Police that.

My FEO (A colleague) showed me how they intend reducing the load in the licensing office...they palm it off onto the FEO.

His account was huge, yet if I try to get hold of him he is out and about, constantly trying to keep up.

Dont forget that a hell of a lot of time and millage is eaten up doing land checks etc. I know that does not affect us target bods but it is all part of the same system.

We moan about licensing times (and yes I know the powers that be dont help by interpreting and micro managing and adding procedure and hassle where it is not necessary), yet we wont pay more.

Have you seen how much the price of re-loading components has gone up this year alone? Yet we have been paying £50 for a 5 year license for how long?

As he points out, you pay more for a 12 month rod license without blinking.

My "trade" should have had 12 in force, we never reached that. We then went to 6, we could barely fill the posts, now down to 3 and we are pushed.

Unless we accept that nothing is getting cheaper we have 2 choices.

Put up and shut up with the current level of service (such as it is, I know my own force got some right stick)

Or

Pay more (and then we would have a reason to moan).

Incidentally, I am not Donald bleeding trump either, I am just in a lucky situation that I am now a DINK that does not smoke, rarely drinks and does not go abroad for a holiday.

Our PCC has just suggested that £5 a year on the rates would cover the shortfall in Policing in my county....a bloody fiver a year....come on tesnews

Sorry, it just gets to me I am afraid, folk seem to think it is a bottomless pit...it aint, trust me.

[Sim G]

Ultimately, I don'tthink we are going to away without a rise. Damian Green it seems was not particularly fond of supporting such, but that may be that he hates the police more than he dislikes guns....

It's not if, but when and by how much?

[shugie]

As I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown of the actual costs. Unless there are roughly 10 full-time employees working, only on firearms, per force, on £44k average I don't see the cost coming anywhere near what they "estimate"

I don't think they earn as much as £44K, but you have to take into account the associated costs of buildings, kit, heat, light and so on. If you include local FEOs, I think most forces probably have rather more than ten full time people as well.

[Egg on Leggs1]

As I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown of the actual costs. Unless there are roughly 10 full-time employees working, only on firearms, per force, on £44k average I don't see the cost coming anywhere near what they "estimate"

I don't think they earn as much as £44K, but you have to take into account the associated costs of buildings, kit, heat, light and so on. If you include local FEOs, I think most forces probably have rather more than ten full time people as well.

Having worked for the fire service l am familiar with ststistics being used to support a desired conclusion. I would suggest that the costs in a lot of cases are repeaters, costs that are used by each department in a building rather than shared. A proper audit of the true costs would tell a different story.

[SevenSixTwo]

circa £20k...

Underpaid I think. Not massively, but underpaid all the same when you consider London Underground train "drivers" get £52,000 a year.

[dave_303]

Maggot, I have sympathy with FEOs, everyone I've had has been more than reasonable and courteous, it (as is often the case) is the upper management who cock things up (at least in my constabulary where the Department manager is a full blown anti).

Where I and most others stand is why should we pay in the first place? It is covered in our council tax, we gain no benefit from this whatsoever, and as discussed in another thread, is an infringement on our rights. If the government really want to save money they would do away with variations, think how much time goes into sorting out those, something that is completely needless.

[Maggot]

Dave, I see your point...to a point.

The thing is whether we like it or not we are a minority. The same could be asked as to why we have to pay for a vehicle license or even ruddy tax given the potholes round here tesnews

Also ask what the general public gets out of licensing?

I would hope that (however much we moan, and we should'nt) that it might, just might, help to prevent the odd nasty, but beyond that I see your point. Fact is, criminal acts with licensed guns in this country are bloody rare, so may it continue.

I have heard that in NZ and Canada they have stopped licensing long arms as it costs more to license than it does to police their use (because they are just so rarely used in crime).

There are many things they could/and should do to ease the load.

They could lay off of us lot quite a bit.

Licensing inert expanding ammo....silly.

Worrying about which type of centrefire rifle you have when you apply and variations...what a faff, perhaps a slot for 3 CF and 3 RF (Or however many you need) and be done with it. Face it, you will tell them anyway when you exchange/sell/purchase.

A 10 year license....or more to the point why bother with a renewal, we dont do it with a car until we are 70 odd....and cars are bigger killers by far, statistically, proportionally or otherwise.

But the fact is its here, and while its very slow and a lot of it is unnecessary, it has to be done, and that has to be paid for somehow.

I am not however of the belief that the general public should fund the licensing of our sport or pastimes. Sorry, why should they?

Cue the comments about us funding scroungers with sky and dirty great telly's....not fair I know but then life seldom is emrolleyes

[kennyc]

Bit of a hot potato this.

I see both sides of the fence and to be honest I am sick to death of people banging on about Police this, Police that.

My FEO (A colleague) showed me how they intend reducing the load in the licensing office...they palm it off onto the FEO.

His account was huge, yet if I try to get hold of him he is out and about, constantly trying to keep up.

Dont forget that a hell of a lot of time and millage is eaten up doing land checks etc. I know that does not affect us target bods but it is all part of the same system.

We moan about licensing times (and yes I know the powers that be dont help by interpreting and micro managing and adding procedure and hassle where it is not necessary), yet we wont pay more.

Have you seen how much the price of re-loading components has gone up this year alone? Yet we have been paying £50 for a 5 year license for how long?

As he points out, you pay more for a 12 month rod license without blinking.

My "trade" should have had 12 in force, we never reached that. We then went to 6, we could barely fill the posts, now down to 3 and we are pushed.

Unless we accept that nothing is getting cheaper we have 2 choices.

Put up and shut up with the current level of service (such as it is, I know my own force got some right stick)

Or

Pay more (and then we would have a reason to moan).

Incidentally, I am not Donald bleeding trump either, I am just in a lucky situation that I am now a DINK that does not smoke, rarely drinks and does not go abroad for a holiday.

Our PCC has just suggested that £5 a year on the rates would cover the shortfall in Policing in my county....a bloody fiver a year....come on tesnews

Sorry, it just gets to me I am afraid, folk seem to think it is a bottomless pit...it aint, trust me.

Chris, I am generally in agreement that the charge should be in line with inflation, however, as long as various licencing deptmartments are allowed to increase their own workload with "spurious" requests for more information, hoops to be jumped through etc than are required by law, then why should the costs be carried by us? I know the FEO's don't write the laws, but then neither do we, if they decide (as many have in the past ) that they will administrate the law in a specific way, even if that way increase's their workload and adds nothing to their main duty (public safety) then why should we shoulder the cost? surely that is the general problem with bureaucracy in this day and age? they think up the job description someone else pays? my local police have reduced staff, cut wages,reduced overtime and yet my council tax's still include extra above inflation charges for the police? how can less cost more?
the UK law on firearms needs to be put through a bullshit filter and have all the duplicated and pointless bits cut from it, then we may have a system fit for purpose and we will know what the cost is, a cost by the way that should not be carried in full by shooters as the system is there for all the population not us alone! the general public do not fund our sport! they fund the measures put in place by the Government to reassure the public that they are doing something to prevent events such as Hungerford, even if history suggests they fail each time! it has no benefit for us, other than allowing us to continue in a LEGAL pastime!