Page 2 of 3
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:28 pm
by Demonic69
Blu wrote:It's quite simple really, the States with sensible gun laws that allow law abiding people to defend themselves have lower crime because the scumbags don't like a level playing field either on the street or in court. You just need to look at the gun and non gun crime figures for Illinois, California, or any anti gun state to see that.
Blu
I agree with you on the surface Blu, but what's stopping the UK Gov't realising we could go the same way? It would be a quick win if, after a 4 year term, they could show that the crime stats have plummeted, if that was the case.
As said above, the stats could me moulded to suit any agenda, even the re-arming of the responsible, if it would help.
I find it hard not to be cynical, but the only reason I can see for us not entering into a sensible and well-informed debate would be to keep the power out of the people's hands.
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:31 pm
by dromia
People in power and aspiring to power fear an armed electorate.
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:43 pm
by northumbrian
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson.
Just about sums it up
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:03 pm
by Blu
demonic69,
I agree with you on the surface Blu, but what's stopping the UK Gov't realising we could go the same way? It would be a quick win if, after a 4 year term, they could show that the crime stats have plummeted, if that was the case.
You don't have State governments with it's own laws like we have that quite often tells the Federal government to wind it's neck in. For instance marijuana is illegal under Federal law, yet in the States of Colorado and Washington it's legal, both those States told the Feds to wind it's neck in. That's a part of the difference mate.
Blu
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:18 pm
by Demonic69
I vote for a state of "Yorkshire". Then we can tell both the Gov't AND the EU to STFU & FTFO!
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:40 pm
by Blu
Demonic69 wrote:I vote for a state of "Yorkshire". Then we can tell both the Gov't AND the EU to STFU & FTFO!
Hell I thought Yorkshire was already in a right state
:lol:
Blu
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:36 pm
by Primer
Demonic69 wrote:I was having a discussion with a colleague about how dangerous guns are, while he could flippantly bandy around supporting phrases it was hard to get him to understand the statistics. This prompted me to do some more digging as I don't like quoting opinion as fact.
I gathered the stats from the web showing that the UK had a relatively large number of gun deaths per legally held firearm - as a ratio we're far higher than the US - and that most gun crime in the UK was committed with air rifles, imitation firearms and illegally held hand guns.
He then got onto America and just how dangerous it is and it got me wondering...
I never take the USA as a whole into any discussion, that would be like including the whole of Europe, as every state has their own set of laws.
I did some Googling to see what was dragging the stats up in the US and I was quite surprised with what I found.
For example, the District of Columbia has the lowest gun ownership rate but the highest gun death rate per 100,000, by a long way!
Conversely Vermont has the lowest gun death rate and a reasonably high gun ownership at 42%.
Wyoming has the highest % of gun owners, yet is only the 9th highest for gun deaths.
This trend seems to be repeated several times over the whole of the US. The Antis seem to ignore these simple facts when spouting about the latest spree killing and the evil AR-15.
The figures in the UK are horribly skewed by the HO, the statistics having some archaic (and immoral) template applied to make them fit better with the overall message of a safe UK.
So how do Vermont, Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming etc. do it? How do they maintain a low level of gun deaths, yet allow almost half of their population to legally own guns? Surely there are some lessons we could learn, if only the powers that be were receptive.
If you want an interesting read get hold of a copy of "Does the trigger pull the finger" it has a whole chapter on gun related crime and how the demographics and social makeup effect the different states in the US.
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:01 pm
by ordnance
I am not sure the high number of firearms or being able to carry a firearm for protection in America makes it a safer country.
The annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population
United States 2.98
United Kingdom 0.03
Canada 0.50
Switzerland 0.52
Homicide rate (per hundred thousand) United States.4.8 United Kingdom. 1.0
The US homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1992 from a rate per 100,000 persons of 9.8 to 4.8 in 2010, ( is still among the highest in the industrialized world )
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:29 pm
by Demonic69
That's the U.S.as a whole though, break it down into states and it's a different picture entirely
Re: Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:17 pm
by Blu
Demonic69 wrote:That's the U.S.as a whole though, break it down into states and it's a different picture entirely
Very true. Take the cities of Chicago for example, Or Baltimore City, Or Washington DC, or LA or NYC. The neighbouring States have much lower gun violence rates than where there is much stricter gun control.
Blu