Vortek Striker Fire

[Sandgroper]

Why not make one? Get a cheap rifle and have a nitro proofed barrel made for it.

I would imagine the only difference would be instead of a chamber being reamed, the barrel has a breech plug made and fitted.

Just a thought.

[Dangermouse]

And it is a bloody good though and one that will play on my mind. Unfortunately my plummer has his hands full for the foreseeable future, I will see if it catches his imagination next time I speak with him,

DM

[Sandgroper]

If you're ever at the Shooting Shed ask David to show you the Westlake ML pistol. It's nitro proofed and would give you an idea of how the breech plug acts as the chamber.

[Dangermouse]

Brilliant, the seed is already sewn then, and he will have had some "hands on" to get some ideas..

DM

[Dangermouse]

It would be fun to build a number, say 10, to the same design, then have a league where by everyone is shooting basically the same rifle.

I read that Tom has had to make bullet dies for each calibre/rifle he sells, as without it the bullet would not fit down the barrel. I guess that would be a expensive venture.

DM

[Sandgroper]

I wouldn't think specific moulds would be required, not if you were to shoot saboted rounds or if you thought about calibres that are very similar - 9mm and 357 spring to mind and/or bullet construction.

Edit: Or as Dromia is want to remind us, boolit fit is paramount and you can push them faster than you would normally expect. It would be fun to apply it to a nitro ML rifle!

Mind you, this discussion has got me thinking... and I'll take this opportunity to say the Westlake is mine and it is for sale.

[Dangermouse]

Sabot rounds were my initial thought when reading about the Vortek, but then I read this on Toms Blog:

What are the limitations or problems associated with plastic sabots? They are as follows:

1. Load pressure is limited.

In a rifle using saboted bullets, the sabot serves as the link between the bullet and the rifles bore. Since the sabot is made from plastic, it has only limited strength. If load pressure goes above certain limits, the sabot will fail and loose its ability to function with resulting poor accuracy.

2. Accuracy at very high velocity is difficult to achieve.

Accuracy at very high velocity levels is much more likely to suffer because the limited strength of the sabot may not be able to withstand torsional forces imposed by the barrels rifling.

3. Barrel rifling twist rate which determines what weight and speed bullets can be shot is limited.

If a rifle barrels rifling twist rate is too fast, it becomes difficult if not impossible to shoot a saboted bullet at highest velocity because the soft plastic sabot will not withstand the high shear / torsional forces imposed by the fast twist rifling. If shooting plastic saboted bullets from a barrel with fast rifling twist then velocities must be slower to achieve accuracy.
If high velocity is to be achieved with good accuracy using saboted bullets then the barrel rifling twist must be slower. The use of the slower twist rate limits the weight of bullets that can be shot. If the longest and heaviest bullets are to be shot at high velocity then, faster twist rifling must be used which eliminates the possibility of using plastic sabots if expecting accurate results.

4. Plastic sabots are affected greatly by temperature.

If best accuracy is to be obtained when shooting saboted bullets, then careful attention must be paid to temperature. As barrel temperatures rise the plastic sabot gets softer and loses strength which degrades accuracy. That means that a significant waiting period between shots is required to avoid overheating the rifles barrel if best accuracy is desired. Also, hot weather makes things even worse even to the point that a load may require considerable reduction if any accurate shooting is to be done.


The advantages gained through the use of sabotless bullets are therefore as follows:

1. There is no limit to the "safe" load pressure that can be used because an unsaboted solid copper or copper jacketed bullet can easily withstand maximum safe working pressures without blow-out or other failure.

2. Unsaboted solid copper or copper jacketed bullets are strong enough to withstand any obtainable velocity and still give excellent accuracy.

3. Any sufficiently fast rifling twist can be used when shooting sabotless copper or copper jacketed bullets because the bullet material strength is more than sufficient to withstand torsional forces.

4. Temperature is of much less concern when shooting sabotless bullets and great accuracy is still obtainable without long waits for barrel cool down. Hot weather is also of little concern.


What are some disadvantages associated with shooting sabotless bullets?

As with anything, there are always some negatives that need to be dealt with. One disadvantage is as follows.

1. The bullet size as related to barrel bore size is very critical. If the bullet is too loose a fit in the barrel bore, misfires or poor ignition with inconsistent results and poor accuracy will result. If the bullet is too tight then loading will be difficult if not impossible. Many bullets may require resizing to obtain the proper fit. A bullet sizing die or dies are provided with Swing-Lock sabotless rifles to assure the customer can obtain bullets to the exact size needed.

To be fair, it should be mentioned that the above disadvantage regarding sabotless bullets brings to light an advantage with regards to saboted bullets which is the fact that the barrel bore to saboted bullet fit is not nearly so critical. The soft plastic sabot allows for errors which cannot be tolerated when shooting sabotless bullets.

All interesting points which were not obvious to me.

DM

[Sandgroper]

It depends on how fast you want to go - we could reinvent the wheel and go for a hollow based ML bullet i.e. a minie bullet!