Bisley range safety etiquette

[ovenpaa]

TR shooters by virtue of their shooting style and sling do load with the muzzle pointing up whilst at Bisley. Interestingly the TR shooters we have in our club do not use this exaggerated loading style when shooting at our club meetings at ranges such as Barton Road.

[rox]

We were actually talking about breaches of range safety rules or the safe shooting system, and particularly closing the bolt on a live round (rule 257). I can’t see any of my photos which show a breach of these rules - can you? **

**Trick question.

..

tongueout Fair point - but look at muzzle position - if you want to see the bolt being closed on live rounds - look at the film clip of the imperial posted on here very recently (and the NRA website)

Mike

I haven't scrutinised every second of the video, but are you sure you aren't mistaking 'pushing forward' (acceptable and common practice) for 'closing' (lugs engaged and camming). There are certainly examples of the former in the film, and my own shot routine is similar (push-forward, place butt in shoulder, then engage lugs and close). Anyone actually closing with the rifle not horizontal wouldn't survive long in the Imperial - Assistant Range Officers, Range Officers, Wing Officers and other scrutineers are very actively looking out for it every detail of every day, and have been for several years.

..

[Old Chap]

Dombo63 I shoot a fair bit at Bisley, not in competitions which, as Rox says, are heavily scrutinised, but in club shoots etc of a more casual nature. It is in this more casual arena that sloppy or incorrect practices are most likely to occur. I have seen many things that have made me wonder including the aforementioned clown who walked across my 600yd firing point on his way to the 300yd points but I have never seen a closed bolt pointing anywhere other than at its target. It is true many shooters drop a new round into the receiver and move the bolt forward a bit - I really don't know why but I was told it was something to do with when you are scoring other shooters within your detail - but never closing the bolt. I am surprised that there is no post from SteveE (yet) because I can assure you that if he or very many other RCOs like him saw such a thing it wouldn't be a quiet word or even a loud one, but the miscreant wouldn't be shooting again for a long time.
O.C.

[Dombo63]

These blokes were just shooting a No. 4 Lee Enfield and a straight-pull Ross, so no need for any acrobatics, and the one I assumed was their club RCO was just as bad. I was watching the No 4 bloke closely as he was left-handed like me and I was keen to see how he worked the action without snagging the rear ladder sight. He was definitely closing the action fully, and with much greater force than I have ever had to work a Lee Enfield bolt.

Sadly I learned nothing watching him other than that he was a complete tit.

Thanks for the replies, everyone, I'll say something next time.

[Gaz]

That said, I am guilty of letting things slide at Bisley because virtually everyone there seems to close bolts on live rounds with the muzzle pointing at the moon

I don't know who you shoot with, but I don't see this, and if I did I would stop them, not let my own safety 'slide'. By failing to observe this safety rule you are jeopardising MY shooting, and I take that very seriously.

..

Fair comment, but let me present a (not quite hypothetical) situation.

Your club has one lane booked and you're doing your thing. Beside you is a club, or possibly an association, taking up five lanes. They have an RCO in a hi-vis watching their firers, all of whom are doing things like closing the bolt without the rifle in the shoulder, pointing it skywards with a live round chambered, bimbling off the point with bolt still closed.

I don't have a problem challenging individuals or small groups acting dangerously, but large clubs/associations are a bit much for a single person to take on.

[IainWR]

Hi Gaz

You are fully entitled, indeed required, to act on it yourself. See rule 252. If you don't want to do it yourself pick up the radio, turn to the control channel (all the way to the right) and call Control. If you don't like doing it on the radio, call them on a mobile (01483 797777 x152). If you don't feel comfortable with them try "one-eight Iain" on the radio or ext 154 (should work one weekend in two).

If nobody tells us we can't do anything about it.

However, note that neither loading out of the shoulder nor pointing the rifle skyward with a live round chambered is necessarily either against the rules or unsafe. Leaving the point with the bolt closed, other than with a rifle being operated in accordance with military procedures for self-loading weapons, is against the rules except in some very specialised situations, and may well be unsafe.

Iain
NRA Range Safety Compliance Officer

[Dougan]

It is true many shooters drop a new round into the receiver and move the bolt forward a bit - I really don't know why

When I had my Enfield convertion, I would chamber the round and close the bolt in 1 action - however I now have a Swing mk4, and it is impossible to chamber a round with the bolt, as the round is not in-line with the chamber...I have to put the round in by hand with the rifle pointing slightly down, push the bolt forward to stop the round falling out of the chamber, then shoulder the rifle and then close the bolt with the rifle pointing at the target.

[Dougan]

However, note that neither loading out of the shoulder nor pointing the rifle skyward with a live round chambered is necessarily either against the rules or unsafe. Leaving the point with the bolt closed, other than with a rifle being operated in accordance with military procedures for self-loading weapons, is against the rules except in some very specialised situations, and may well be unsafe

I'm surprised to hear this, and a bit confused - I thought that there was something called the '4 degree rule' (or something like that?), that said you had to close your bolt with the rifle pointing at the target...which is also regardless of discipline, including TR?

Also to say that someone leaving the firing point (non-military) with their bolt closed "may well be unsafe", is surely an understatement - I would have though that if witnessed by an RCO it would lead to disciplinary action...?

[TattooedGun]

RCO handbook edition three

2.3.19 Position for loading. During loading, unloading, stoppage drills and inspection, firearms should be pointing at the target , and must not be elevated above 70 mils to the horizontal.

That is not to say that you cannot load whilst the rifle is firmly on the ground, then pick up a loaded rifle and put it to your shoulder... I have heard that this is a technique that is used occassionally by some firers, although most everyone I've ever encountered loads in the shoulder at the horizontal.

[TattooedGun]

Although saying that, and reading further
3.1.5 reiterates the last one I said "When loading, or unloading with a live round in the chamber, the rifle must be horizontal.

3.1.6 A loaded firearm must be pointed towards the assigned target.

Which kind of negates what I just said after 2.3.19... Doh! Anyone care to clarify why I think that some people use this practise?