DURHAM ACF SHOOTING TEAM Open Evening/Presentation Evening

[Alpha1]

Adam give it up we are wasting our time.

I pay £360 plus a year in membership fees plus range day fees as a guest of other clubs on average £35 a lane.
I am lucky if I get two 300yd range days a month any distance over that is all most imposible most range days are 25mtrs.

Adam they dont live in the same world as us you are banging your head against a wall.

Sorry to hijack your thread this thread is about The Cadets and they did good I congratulate them. Hope fully they will carry on in the sport but I dont think that is very likely there are no facilities here for them to do that.

[dromia]

Aye Dave, "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

As you know I've been a member of the NRA for many years and have fought their corner on many an occasion, however the fundamental fact is that there is no benefit from being a member of the NRA, that you cannot get cheaper elsewhere, unless you can shoot regularly at Bisley and want to book targets. That reality undermines any proselytising I do on behalf of the organisation up here. The only argument I have to come back with is its better to be in the tent than out, however the tent is now so shabby and threadbare that you can join in the p!ssing from the outside without the entry fee. That has happened to such an extent now that I have a hard time believing it myself. Every few years the NRA seems to stagger from one crisis, usually financial, to the next and all the promises that went before remain unfulfilled, the organisation has lost any credibility and that is reflected by its membership.

Until the NRA addresses this and gives non Bisley shooters a reason for joining and represents them rather than a way of shooting it will remain a very small and insignificant organisation that is in no way national other than being a governing body of a minority discipline or two.

Regardless of all that is said here the fact of the matter is that the NRA lacks relevance, success and influence. The proof of that is in its low membership and how that spread is across the country, that is what talks the loudest. With such small numbers nationally shooters say what they think about the organisation by voting with its feet. That talks far more powerfully that any rhetoric here.

People like us Dave will get our shooting sorted in spite of the NRA not because of them, thank goodness for the PSSA and Diggle, However it is those young shooters I met on Monday night who will get the real shock when they leave the cadets and see, comparatively, how little there is for them outside the Bisley catchment.

Just as an example in one of my small bore clubs we have a few ex ACF young members who were keen and successful prone fullbore shooters, now they shoot small bore, mainly bench rest, because of the lack of cost effective full bore shooting opportunities in the NE post ACF. At least they have stayed shooting and got their FACs but they are no doubt in the minority.

[karen]

Dromia

Of course it was a lighthearted comment but don't let that stop you using it to have yet another dig at the NRA.

I have given you an example of what the NRA and its members are doing to help the transition from cadet, school or uni to the adult world of shooting and you turn that into something bad?

A couple of years ago the NRA asked all its clubs if it could help with cadets in their local area when they left the cadets - the clubs were not very forthcoming with offers of help.

Cadets are the future and we ALL need to help keep them in the sport so quit moaning and do more!

Karen

[Alpha1]

Cadets are the future and we ALL need to help keep them in the sport so quit moaning and do more!

Karen

Quit moaning and do more you obviously dont know Adam very well. Adam is one of the most pro active shooters I have met. I know Adam personally a RFD. A active member of a number of shooting clubs. A active member of a 7.3 shooting centre. Secretary of a prominent North East shooting club. A researcher of his hobby I have spent many a hour been tutored on the cast boolits trail by the guy.He does not make a bad cup of tea either. Do more. I can think of a few people who could do with taking a leaf out of Adams book.

[Christel]

Cadets are the future and we ALL need to help keep them in the sport so quit moaning and do more!

Karen

Quit moaning and do more you obviously dont know Adam very well. Adam is one of the most pro active shooters I have met. I know Adam personally a RFD. A active member of a number of shooting clubs. A active member of a 7.3 shooting centre. Secretary of a prominent North East shooting club. A researcher of his hobby I have spent many a hour been tutored on the cast boolits trail by the guy.He does not make a bad cup of tea either. Do more. I can think of a few people who could do with taking a leaf out of Adams book.

Not to forget the amount of hours he spends on here advising people on the art of shooting.

[karen]

Cadets are the future and we ALL need to help keep them in the sport so quit moaning and do more!

The ALL in the above sentence was aimed at EVERYONE :cool2:

I am sure Adam does a lot - I also do a lot and so do a lot of people I know but don't have a go at others who are also trying to make a difference.

Karen

[Alpha1]

Karen with respect they might be making a difference to you. But I can assure you they are not making one ounce of difference to me.

[dromia]

Thanks Dave, I hadn't realised I was so busy, better take a holiday!

Karen the issue isn't the clubs it the range facilities and access to them that is the hold back for all shooting development.

Booking a range from Landmarc is totally different from booking a target at Bisley.

Regarding the NRA I will continue to criticise and applaud the NRA, I am a member and it is my "National" organisation for better or for worse and as such I feel I have duty to make my points to it.

I don't doubt the hard work that everyone at the NRA does but as member I have yet to see it making a difference to my shooting situation in the NE. This criticism of the NRA is nothing new it has been going on for decades and things at the NRA only seem to get worse. Its not a new organisation and has promised in the past and failed to deliver that is why the current round of aspirations sound so hollow to many of us. There has to be more to the NRA than just Bisley. The chief executives welcome in the current issues of the journal could almost have been lifted from here so we are in agreement on the problems. Lets get some agreement on the solutions and lets see some positive differences rather than the negative ones that seem to happen, the current financial debacle isn't an excuse for the poor delivery at present it is all part of the same illness. This didn't happen externally from the NRA the NRA is responsible for it. Where were the trustees and management to allow the current financial shambles to occur? Who has been held to account for it and what action has been taken against the people responsible. Its almost like the bloody banks, keep getting it wrong and thats OK.

For the record on Tuesday I formally wrote to the Durham ACF thanking them for inviting me to the evening and congratulating all involved for their achievements and I quote from my letter:


"The young people are very lucky to have such a supportive and resourced environment in which to develop their shooting and give them a love of such a rewarding pastime.

The problems for them I suspect is continuing their sport in the civilian world as there are real barriers of cost, access and the statutory requirements for holding firearms.

As a local club we are keen to support shooting as best we can and if you feel that there is anything we could contribute to your shooting team then I will be more than happy to discuss opportunities with you."

So people are doing and trying to do, it doesn't take everyone or every club to make a difference it just takes enough. How ever the strategic issue of facilities has to be tackled at a national level. That is why we need a National body. I hope the NRA will become a national body some day.

I look forward to the NRA making a difference for shooters in the NE like Alpha1, myself and all the others we shoot with.

[Blu]

The main problem with converting cadet shooters into 'proper' shooters is that the cadet forces as a whole are happy to stay within their little silo, and with a few notable exceptions such as Durham, they're happy to keep it that way.

Certainly in the ATC there was the Bisley school of thought, which regarded anything other than TR as dodgy, and there was the SR school of thought, which thought anything other than burning off the largest number of rounds in the smallest amount of time (accuracy optional) as something weird to be mocked. Most cadet instructors in my experience fell into the latter school - possibly a function of not being given sufficient coaching training/not having to pay for their ammo!

At higher levels the cadet shooting hierarchy just aren't interested in linking into civilian competitions, unless they can take control and run the event themselves. Those units who do are very much the exception rather than the norm.

And this is all before you get into the realms of military bureaucracy and the ludicrous restrictions the cadet forces impose on themselves...

Gaz, I believe you are way of the mark with that comment, first of all it's the Army Cadet Force, they teach the kids how to shoot the military way and sometimes that means getting as many rounds on target in the fastest possible time, the whole thing is about training possible future soldiers, hey mate when you have an enemy soldier running at you the only thing going trough your mind is putting him down. While "proper shooters" might look down their noses at military shooting believe me mate getting as many rounds down range and on target can count for a lot when the $hits flying.

Also have you any idea just how much of a pain in the ass getting the authority to move weapons of any kind from say the Cadet building to a civilian shooting range? The Cadet Forces do not impose those restrictions on themselves, both the law and the MOD are the ones that impose those restrictions. Back when I served I had to travel up to Sennelager from Osnabruck to join the other members of the BAOR shooting team for the work ups before competing. Just getting the authority to move my personal weapon from A to B took months and reams of paperwork. So I think you are way of the mark there unless things have changed big time which I don't think the have, if anything given attitudes these days to firearms I'd say things were very much more restrictive.

As for "proper shooters" well friend I started my shooting days as an Army Cadet and then as a Regular Soldier, these days I still shoot and though I have never had a "proper shooter" coach me, I can still hit a moving target at 1000 yards. And hey looking at some of the kit the so called "proper shooters" use these days, I'd hardly call it "proper shooting", it's not exactly off a sandbag these days, is it?

Blu

[Blu]

You know folks I can see where Adam is coming from and I have to say I agree with him. Getting the young involved in the sport is necessary for the very survival of the sport. Back in April my local Gun and Rod club had it's youth day below is the the description of events for the day copied from their website

Youth Day at the Charlevoix Rod and Gun Club

April 21, 2012 10:00am – 4:00pm (Rain or Shine)

Ages 5 – 16 year old

We will have 600 brook trout put in the pond,
22 rifle instruction, archery targets, the Jordan River National Fish Hatchery
will be on hand again with their fish carvings and information, and hopefully
will have the MDNR (Michigan Department of Natural Resources) back with their wildlife and fur displays.

NEW THIS YEAR WILL BE SHOTGUN.

The Ruffed Grouse Society will be on hand to assist with the shotgun events.



Bring your fishing poles and enjoy our Trout Pond


(Bait and some equipment available)



Try out our Archery Range

All Equipment Provided

Certified Instructors



Experience the Rifle Range with .22 Rifles

All Equipment and Ammo Provided

Ages 10 – 16

Instruction by NRA Range Safety Officers



Try out the Shotgun Range

All Equipment and Ammo Provided

Ages 10 – 16



Outdoor Education, Furs and Feather Displays

Turkey Calling Demonstrations

How many UK clubs put on something like this for the kids? Now I know some might come back at me here and mention liability and the like but the thing is guys we have the exact same liabilities you folks have ( along with signed disclaimers). All the shooting clubs I belong to put on something like this every year for the kids and not only does it bring in new memberships it also gets the kids interested in shooting. We genuinely get families come along who had no previous interest in shooting only to find how much fun it is and take it up. I can go the range anyday and see as many female shooters as there is guys.

I believe that if your club isn't doing something like this already, well then it might be a case of could the last person out please switch off the lights for the last time. Hey just saying guys.

Blu