Scottish Gun Cap

[Alpha1]

A quick note about "druggies" mentioned above.

In fact, for every pound spent in treatment, £9 is saved in the overall economy - i.e. there is an even huger amount that would be lost if they were not treated.

And, no one is immune from addictions - when it is your son or daughter or parent or yourself, then perspectives tend to change.

Please note, this is NOT posted in a condemnatory way.......just for information.

Sorry I dont follow could you explain why that is. A genuine question I am not trying to be clever or sarcastic I dont understand the logic.

[Michael Sproul]

The theory goes that it's cheaper to keep 'em stoned than the cost to the economy of the thieving that they do to feed their habit.

[Alpha1]

The theory goes that it's cheaper to keep 'em stoned than the cost to the economy of the thieving that they do to feed their habit.

So why dont they just lock them in a room feed and water them and let them live or die. If they die we save money if they survive well chances are they will go through the same thing again twelve month after they have been released. What sort of idiot would take them in the first place.

[BestDrugDoc]

OK, the reason the country saves £9 for every £1 spent on treating drug misuse and £5 for alcohol misuse is something like this:

The savings to tax payers are from - costs to the NHS for treating problems caused, costs to shops (us) for the huge amount of theft involved, costs to householders for burglaries (us) and insurance companies (us again), costs to the police for arresting/processing misusers, costs to court services for processing cases, costs for prison stays (huge), costs for probation/tagging etc. There are more obviously including sickness/unemployment/housing benefits etc

That does not even take into account the misery sometimes caused to the rest of us from their activities.

So in purely pragmatic terms - even if you have no compassion at all for these people - then it is logically worth spending money on treatment.

So this involves advice, counselling, therapy, harm reduction ie needle/syringe exchanges and blood borne virus testing and immunisation, detoxification from drugs/alcohol, sometimes stabilisation on to an opiate substitute (not expensive) and then a period of stability and then the aim is for reduction and stopping in most cases. As well as this people usually need financial, housing, employment advise etc which may come as part of a residential or non residential rehab programme and ongoing working with professinals.

If you think it really is about "them and us", for the users of this forum it may be correct to some extent - very few FAC holders have had serious drug or alcohol problems - or they have hidden them well. More people may have experience of close family members with these problems - as I said in previous posts, perceptions usually change rapidly in these cases. And again, addiction is no respecter of social status/class/wealth/poverty/etc.

Addiction is a powerful thing. Those of us who smoke or are obese from nicotine addiction or food addiction or those with a gambling addiction (and many other addicitions) - know how easy it is to start by making a foolish, unwise or plain bad decision then being drawn in and unable to stop doing whatever it is even though they know it is harming them.

So drugs are illegal - yes - that is a policy decision for the state, but alcohol isnt and it causes far far more problems and expenditure for the country than drugs.

The good news is though that treatment does work in many cases if you do it right. People can become productive and useful members of society and actually start to pay tax, not use it up.

I totally agree that people who offend need appropriate punishment - but why lock them up and waste more money and fuel the problem as well - unless they are a significant danger to people or property. I know several people who have come out of prison with a drug problem who did not go in with one in the first place. Drugs are widely available in prison. So I fail to understand why community service sentences cant be properly enforced - why cant we have all the litter and dumped rubbish picked up using offenders etc etc! Rant over now about that.

So, I would argue that effective treatment for people with drug/alcohol/any addiction is worthwhile on cost effective grounds as well as compassionate grounds.

If it was you or your close family who were in trouble, what would you want?

PS apologies to the forum and moderators for taking the thread on in another direction - but I felt it was worth discussing.

[Chuck]

BestdrugDoc.

I can see your point, clealry this is your subject and well done to you............but they are a protected species and that is grossly unfair....they are a blight on the population and at least drunks don't spread diseases like AiDS at the same rate as drug users do.

Seen enough of what they do to an area to last a lifetime and whilst I appreciate your explanations I would just as soon they were left to rot on some island.....they are dead but don't know it and a slong as "celebrity" addicts are applauded and fawne dover by the media drugs will seem glamorous...NOWT glitzy about having to steal to feed a vile habit, shoving needles into your body and living in filth and squalor....THAT is the reality of drugs.

"But wait till it's your family" is akin to "but wait until you have kids of your own"..not a valid argument....If drug usurers and dealers were treeated the way some countries do then maybe the problem would abate...

I made my drugs position clear to my son ages ago: "Do them or get caught with them in ANY way - don't bother wasting your phone call...you're on your own"!