Changes in the law relating to firearms and shotguns

[Robin128]

Ovenpaa,

I respect your opinion.

10 year olds need FAC to be compliant and start to learn that their sport is regulated.

10 year olds need to be coached by learned and certificated people about safety and responsibility.

More regulation has not lead to better control. It will not stop a nutter throwing a switch...do we regulated fire buckets, because I'm sure if one gave someone a good clout with one enough times, it would kill one.

All more regulation will lead to is, as you say, more restrictions and red tape.

On airguns, why do you think more regulation will stop abuse? New rules, like the old, would be useless unless they are applied...and to be honest, why do you think the current law is weak?...is it because they are not being applied?

You know, in your business, one can write manuals until your pen breaks, but if they remain on the shelf...



Rob

[ovenpaa]

I do own shotguns, only a couple these days having downsized somewhat and yes I do admit I have less interest in them than fullbore rifles however I still own and use them and enjoy every minute of it as well.

I honestly cannot see any correlation between the number shotguns or firearms legally owned and the incidents that took place and sadly I doubt that further regulation of the shooting community will have any impact on events in the future. When people crack they crack regardless of what sort of licence they do or do not have. Take all the guns away and people will use an alternative. That is not the issue for me, I am not advocating the tightening of regulations, more the simplifying and standardisation and if that means a common certificate with separate sections, common standards to judge applications by and formalising procedures then so be it.

As an example I am required to keep my ammunition under lock and key. As a matter of course I apply the same rule to the shotgun cartridges I keep and my certificates, that is my choice. Equally I know a couple of people who leave FAC/SGC's in the glove compartment and happily stack a couple of thousand cartridges on the stairs. I am not a better person for being more security/safety concious, I just prefer my way of storing things and in that respect I think a bit more control would be handy.

[ovenpaa]

10 year olds need FAC to be compliant and start to learn that their sport is regulated.

10 year olds need to be coached by learned and certificated people about safety and responsibility.

I did not know you could hold an FAC at ten years old, I thought it was only an SGC and only in Scotland. A ten year old does not need a certificate to understand his/hers sport is regulated. A ten year old equally does not need an SGC/FAC to coached either, it is the responsibility of the coach to teach and the student to listen. A piece of paper at such a young age makes no difference, more to the point does this mean that the under 16's that shoot at a competitive level without a certificate have less understanding of the regulations and restrictions forced on the sport?

On airguns, why do you think more regulation will stop abuse? New rules, like the old, would be useless unless they are applied...and to be honest, why do you think the current law is weak?...is it because they are not being applied?

The weakness is lack of accountability, we are in a hole with our current airgun laws, all I ask is that they are licensed, not that the owners go through hoops to gain the certificate. I argue this point because I think they are every bit as dangerous as a rim/centre fire rifle in some circumstances and the people that own them on occasion fail to understand this. It is not a weekly event but every year a youngster gets killed with an airgun because he/she hauled out from under the bed or where ever, gave it to his mate or whatever and somewhere along the line there was either an ND or a deliberate act that took a life.

These days you cannot shoot on MoD land without an SCC, to get this you have to demonstrate good safety and understanding of the rifle you are using. If you are new to the sport you go through a probationary period to enable you to learn how to shoot safely.

A motorcyclist has to sit a CBT before venturing out on the road so why not a young shooter with an airgun? Pay 25 quid get a half day gun safety course thrown in, issue them a licence. How is that different in principle to a youngster needing an FAC to learn there sport is regulated?

[Robin128]

10 year olds need FAC to be compliant and start to learn that their sport is regulated.

10 year olds need to be coached by learned and certificated people about safety and responsibility.

I did not know you could hold an FAC at ten years old, I thought it was only an SGC and only in Scotland. A ten year old does not need a certificate to understand his/hers sport is regulated. A ten year old equally does not need an SGC/FAC to coached either, it is the responsibility of the coach to teach and the student to listen. A piece of paper at such a young age makes no difference, more to the point does this mean that the under 16's that shoot at a competitive level without a certificate have less understanding of the regulations and restrictions forced on the sport?

So you are for 10 year olds having a certificate...no more regulation required?

On airguns, why do you think more regulation will stop abuse? New rules, like the old, would be useless unless they are applied...and to be honest, why do you think the current law is weak?...is it because they are not being applied?

The weakness is lack of accountability, we are in a hole with our current airgun laws, all I ask is that they are licensed, not that the owners go through hoops to gain the certificate. I argue this point because I think they are every bit as dangerous as a rim/centre fire rifle in some circumstances and the people that own them on occasion fail to understand this. It is not a weekly event but every year a youngster gets killed with an airgun because he/she hauled out from under the bed or where ever, gave it to his mate or whatever and somewhere along the line there was either an ND or a deliberate act that took a life.

So where is the weakness in the current law on airguns? It just needs applying...there is a stack of law the Police can use to lock up abusers. So the law abiding get stuffed with more regulation...but no effect on their behaviour. And the scroats just carry on using airguns as before and not apply for FAC...tell me ovenpaa...how will that change scroats behaviour? Does all this firearms law stop all the illegal use of handguns etc...sorry...NO.


These days you cannot shoot on MoD land without an SCC, to get this you have to demonstrate good safety and understanding of the rifle you are using. If you are new to the sport you go through a probationary period to enable you to learn how to shoot safely.

You cannot shoot on MOD range without a valid competency cert.


A motorcyclist has to sit a CBT before venturing out on the road so why not a young shooter with an airgun? Pay 25 quid get a half day gun safety course thrown in, issue them a licence. How is that different in principle to a youngster needing an FAC to learn there sport is regulated?

See above.

Rob

[Alpha1]

Getting a bit heavy here guys time out take a deep breath.

Think good thoughts repeat after me we are all good freinds here we are all good freinds here.

NOW DONT THAT FEEL BETTER.

Move on read the rest of the forum.

Exscuse me for speaking my mind but I have been around shooting forums for quite a number of years but you guys can get really wired for a forum that is really just getting off the ground.

You guys need to chill a bit.

Must be scary being on the firing point with you guys.

[Robin128]

What are you off about Alpha1?...no-one is falling out...just having a debate mate.

:)

Rob

[Robin128]

If I were just getting into the sport I think now would be a good time to apply for a s1 and s2 certs. Whether to go for everything, inc s1 revolver, 30cal rifle with mod, 10 shot semi auto shotgun etc, is as they say, debateable...always assuming good reason for s1.

I'm wondering whether to trade in my revolver and underlever for a b525 Browning o/u, before there are any surprises, like after Ryan and Hamilton. Part ex valuations might be an indicator of what dealers fear. One can forget compensation.

Perhaps my s1 semi will become s5...who knows.

Mike has gone a bit quiet on this recently...bit it has been Christmas. Wonder what the next stages are for this review...any dates/agenda Mike...anyone?

What ever changes they make, bet you it will not prevent next nut case who snaps. Wonder how all of you who have criminal records are feeling right now...might be a glut of second hand o/u SGs at the dealers soon. :?

Sorry...real world.

Rob

[Sandgroper]

Finally, please can someone tell me why a 10 years old needs a SGC!!

From Examination of Witnesses (Questions 238-269)

16 NOVEMBER 2010

Adrian Whiting: The evidence in relation to young people shooting does not give any cause for concern—I am talking about section 1 firearms and section 2 shotguns—around the current system which, for example, enables children younger than 14 to possess a shotgun certificate in order to shoot when they are being supervised.

[Robin128]

It's all in the Safe Shooting Thread I placed in our Library...well worth a read.

H. O. Guidance notes 2002 and 2005.

I've saved them to my computer and beat myself with them regularly.



Rob

[Chuck]

Less LAWS - MORE RESPONSIBILITY!

You cannot legislate against morons so make those res[ponsible accountable for their actions.

The UK is so far up its own backside with rules it's a wonder it can pass anything.

As said, we have more than enough laws for EVERYTHING in the UK, we need LESS laws,, not more. Laws affect YOU the law abiding, ADVERSELY when it comes to guns. They never affect scrotes, unless they get caught!

We need to ligghten up in the UK and stop seeing everything as dfoom and gloom, I know it's hard but jezzeuz, we are ADULTS, why should WE have to obey laws created for scumbags and idiots - cos THAT is where we are today! Our way of lifer is dictated by the actions of a few clowns, who when caught should be made an example of.