Changes in the law relating to firearms and shotguns

[ovenpaa]

I agree Alpha1 - so what is the purpose of the SGC, the child cannot drive to a shoot on his own, and I would hope no self respecting parent would allow a 10 year old out with a Shotgun unsupervised so I am not sure what the purposes of letting a 10yr old have an SGC is. My kids both shot at the 14 mark, probably a bit younger but I would not have been happy to let them out of my sight with a SG and a pocket full of cartridges regardless of land ownership or competency. You just never know who is standing around the corner and a kid with a Shotgun and without a mentor is an easy target.

Too easy a target in my opinion.

I am all for youngsters shooting but to issue a certificate at the age of 10 seems wrong to me.

[Robin128]

Is it wise to forecast and plan or just put ones' heads in the sand, Alan?

Ovenpaa, I would re-examine your basis for optimism...if past performance is an indicator for the future, and I think an unfavourable trend might have developed over the last 20 years... do you trust any UK Government to get it right?

OK, I have an open ticket for most of my weapons, and have probably reached the limits of the range of s1, so maybe I ought to consider my position and the risks to my sport.

There does seem to be an appetite, God knows for what reason(s), to increase the age of young shooters. Not being too cynical, but perhaps this is the antis trying to reduce the future demand for FACs...and thereby, in their tiny minds, think such action will generate less chance of a Bird, Ryan or Hamilton being (erroneously) granted a FAC by the hard pressed Police.

Personally I think BASC are right to contest these rediculous assertions and demand financials on the Police's cert depts before considering a fee increase. Better service?... dream on.


Rob

[Mike357]

Indeed, most are sons of landowners or farmers. What's the problem?

[Sandgroper]

I'm wondering what will be the effect of combining the Firearms Acts and moreover, merging sporting rifles with shotguns...does this mean s2 regulations for sporting rifles or s1 regulations for shotguns?

Rob,
BASC et al want "s2 regulations for sporting rifles" and Keith Vaz and others want "s1 regulations for shotguns." The devil will be in the details and the compromises made.

Even if the status quo remains regarding S1 and S2, I still can't see why we can't have one certificate to cover all sections as Ovenpaa suggested.

Regarding the age issue, I believe that the certificates are requested and issued due to the vagueness of the firearms acts with regards to lending Shotguns/Firearms and allowing children access to shooting. Essentially, parents are getting their children a SGC to cover themselves. I might be wrong, but that is how it seemed to be put across duing the inquiry.

[alan108]

Is it wise to forecast and plan or just put ones' heads in the sand, Alan?




Rob

How can you forecast and plan when you don't know the outcome?

Only if you have a cystal ball, Rob,and can SEE the future,it only creates confusion to speculate,when nothing is decided.

Alan :)

[ovenpaa]

Rob, I already enjoy an exceptional service form my local Firearms team, nobody has explained to me yet why a 10 year old needs an SGC, and I am saying lets simplify the current certificate system, less forms means less work. Put everything on a standard 5 year ticket and yes I believe there should be more control over the number of shotguns owned, right now I can go out and buy a dozen P/A's without any questions being asked but I need to justify a need for a like calibre rifle in my cabinet. Justify, nothing more and I have never been refused. Perhaps what is more important is to set some common standards across the board and place people with a greater understanding of Firearms in the firearms offices if they do not exist.

Do I trust any UK Government? Of course not but I did choose them (Apparently) not trusting the people in power is a national pastime after all.


While we are on the subject bring back dog licences for traceability and I also strongly believe Air weapons should be licensed or at least better regulated.

[wildrover77]

Rob, I already enjoy an exceptional service form my local Firearms team, nobody has explained to me yet why a 10 year old needs an SGC, and I am saying lets simplify the current certificate system, less forms means less work. Put everything on a standard 5 year ticket and yes I believe there should be more control over the number of shotguns owned, right now I can go out and buy a dozen P/A's without any questions being asked but I need to justify a need for a like calibre rifle in my cabinet. Justify, nothing more and I have never been refused. Perhaps what is more important is to set some common standards across the board and place people with a greater understanding of Firearms in the firearms offices if they do not exist.

Do I trust any UK Government? Of course not but I did choose them (Apparently) not trusting the people in power is a national pastime after all.


While we are on the subject bring back dog licences for traceability and I also strongly believe Air weapons should be licensed or at least better regulated.

Ovenpaa I fear you are not being sarcastic, every walk of life is now more regulated than ever it only increase jobs for bureaucrats and does nothing for public safety.

If you look at the subject of firearms controls in the UK before there were any controls of any sort there was very little misuse. In the latter parts of the 1800's it was very common for members of the pubilc to be armed with a result of low levels of crime. With each new set of controls the 1920's, 1960's, 1980's and 1990's criminal use of guns has increased.

Dont even get me onto the subject of food saftey or child safety all of the schemes and bodys set up in these respect are completly pointless, wasteful, expensive and give a false sense of safety.

[ovenpaa]

No sarcasm intended although I did write it with a sense of weariness. maybe we are slowly but surely being assimilated into a state of political correctness without even realising. I do not mean the PC'ness we all shout about, I mean that underlying creeping PC'ness that makes us watch a 1970's UK comedy show and cringe slightly.

I am not sure we can compare the latter parts of the 1800's with the times we now live in and I doubt very much that the majority of controls imposed on us these last 20 years have had the impact our masters had hoped for, so as a consequence they look for reason to inflict ever increasing restrictions on our sport. My view is I am a 53 year old male FAC/SGC/Explosives holder. If I am to be restricted to the level I am then at least lets make my life easier by giving me one certificate that lasts for a given period, and if I need a licence then why not a 17 year old with an air rifle that is capable of killing someone/something.

Finally, please can someone tell me why a 10 years old needs a SGC!!

Welcome to the forum

[Archie]

Quote: "and yes I believe there should be more control over the number of shotguns owned,"

Is this the thin edge of a divisive wedge? Can one therefore assume that you have no great interest in shotguns and are willing to give up the current rights of others?
Did the number of shotguns posessed by the three dispicable perpetrators of the previous massacres have any relavance to the incidents? I don't think so but forgive me if I am wrong.

Quote: " I also strongly believe Air weapons should be licensed or at least better regulated."

I think that current laws & proper sentencing should be applied prior to any legisation changes

Archie

[HeatherW762]

[quote="ovenpaa"]

Finally, please can someone tell me why a 10 years old needs a SGC!!


I'm not sure about SGC's but with FAC's you do get youngsters with them just so they can handle their fathers/mothers etc gun legally. They don't have permission to purchase just hold and shoot.

I realise that in a lot of cases 'estate guns' would solve that issue for shotguns but if the youngster is shooting at a ground then wouldn't the same principle as above apply?

So, yes, they have a certificate but doesn't mean they can do anything more than shoot a borrowed gun.

Heather