Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

[Porcupine]

California does have increasingly strict gun control. But in most states, and at the federal level, the direction is the opposite. Arizona recently passed a law scrapping the requirement for a permit to carry a gun. You can now walk into a gun show, buy a handgun, and walk out carrying it on your hip without ever needing permission from or to register with the government. Wisconsin was, until recently, one of only two states in the union that banned concealed carry. That has been overturned and Wisconsinites can now easily get a permit to carry a gun. District of Columbia until recently had essentially banned gun ownership but now residents can buy guns with little difficulty thanks to the second amendment (the ban was ruled unconstitutional). Countless gun control laws that surely would pass here if ever an attempt was made to pass them have been voted down or ruled unconstitutional. Recent examples include laws that would have required gun dealers to report multiple long gun purchases, that would have banned the importation of shotguns with certain 'bad' features, that would have banned those on terror watch lists from purchasing firearms. A federal law banning the carrying of firearms in national parks was struck down as unconstitutional. Many states have passed preemption laws which ban cities or localities from passing their own gun control laws, and many more have passed or are moving towards implementing Castle doctrine laws (which enshrine in law the principle that you can kill an attacker where he stands without needing to demonstrate 'an unwillingness to fight', such as by retreating, as in the common law).

Some of he laws in Cali make our laws look liberal. At least we're not restricted to magazine size.

California has more liberal gun laws than the UK in almost every meaningful way. Fullbore semi-automatic rifles are limited to 10 round magazines in California if they have 'bad' features (flash hider, grenade launcher, pistol grip, etc). If they do not have any 'bad' features (Kel Tec SU16 CA is an example of an off-the-shelf rifle of this kind, but plenty of ARs/AKs etc are modified to meet the criteria) they may have any magazine capacity. Fullbore semi-autos are completely banned here. Fullbore rifles that are not semi-automatic, as well as smallbore rifles, may have any magazine capacity and any features.

New purchases of .50 BMG rifles are banned in California (if you owned one before the ban, you can keep it) but other large calibers like .338 Lapua, .408 Cheytac, 20mm Vulcan etc are not restricted. .50 BMG is available here but there's almost nowhere you can shoot it.

Semi-automatic shotguns with detachable magazines are banned, as are semi-autoamtic shotguns with folding/telescoping stocks and a pistol grip. These features are allowed here.

So unless you want to shoot .50 BMG and for some reason .408 Cheytac just doesn't do it for you, or unless you want a Saiga shotgun or really want both a folding/telescoping stock and a pistol grip on your semi-auto shotgun (pumps are unrestricted) there's not much question.

Suppressors are banned too which sucks, but I think it's clearly outweighed by the fact that in California you can:

• Buy a handgun (banned here)
• Buy a long gun with just 10 days waiting and a £12 fee per purchase for the registration regardless of number of weapons (can take months for your first section 2 here, and 9 months or more for your first section 1 followed by weeks for subsequent purchases, need a license, need to give a 'good reason' for everything on section 1, need a cabinet, etc)
• With the above restrictions, buy a semi-auto rifle (banned here)
• Buy a shotgun with a barrel less than 24 inches in length (that being the minimum here with a few exceptions)
• Buy hollowpoints (banned here)
• Own as many guns and as much ammunition as you want (limited here)
• Store your guns however you like (must be locked away here)
• Get a permit to carry a concealed handgun (with varying degrees of dificulty depending on where you live - some rural counties hand them out happily, most cities only hand them to special cases e.g. jewelry store owners, bank managers, rape victims, celebrities etc)
• Easily find a profusion of gun stores and private and public ranges, indoor and outdoor, covering all ranges and disciplines
• Buy guns, ammunition and accessories far more cheaply than in the UK
• Go out into the woods or desert and shoot wherever you like (need police permission for section 1 here and landowner permission for anything - the latter being technically required in Cali but nobody cares)
• Buy a blackpowder gun or air rifle of any power without any restriction at all (blackpowder and powerful airguns treated like any other gun here)
• Cross the border into Nevada/Arizona and basically live a life without gun laws - machineguns, permit-less carry, etc

[Chuck]

Arizona, I love the place! :lol: :lol:

[etprescottuk]

Not quite as easy as walking in and walkin out. Any puchaser of a firearm in Arizona both long gun and handgun must have a valid ID for the State of Arizona proving residency in the state, Californians can't drive over for example and buy firearms. All purchasers of a firearm must under go a criminal background check before being permited to take possesion of the firearm, even at a gun show, though this is done over the phone with a Federal agency and takes about five minutes. The only exeption would be a concealed carry permit holder, the state has done an extensive check and the persons prints are on file.
True private sales are still permited, with no back ground check, though the seller would open themselves up to civil liabilty if knowingly selling to a lowlife who go's out and commits a crime with the firearm. I personaly do not know any one who sell to a lowlife individual.

[Scotsgun]

OK, so say i bought a property in a state of the USA with relatively lax gun restrictions like Arizona. I retain my UK citizenship but spend a few months every year at my US property. Could i:

a. Purchase and own a rifle and shotgun- use it to hunt and shoot at a range, etc?
b. Purchase and own a pistol?
c. Conceal carry (provided the state allowed and i passed any course requirements)?

[etprescottuk]

OK, so say i bought a property in a state of the USA with relatively lax gun restrictions like Arizona. I retain my UK citizenship but spend a few months every year at my US property. Could i:

a. Purchase and own a rifle and shotgun- use it to hunt and shoot at a range, etc?
b. Purchase and own a pistol?
c. Conceal carry (provided the state allowed and I passed any course requirements)?

The answer to all three of your questions is yes.
Federal laws in the U.S. requires residency restrictions to purchase firearms, there are no state laws that mandate U.S. citizenship (been kicked around a few times at the Federal level since 9/11) in order to purchase a firearm. The Federal forms that are filled out will ask citizenship, when answered truthfully several additional items of documentation would need to be produced along with a passport. In order to verify residency, a valid state ID and items such as utility bills older than six months, pay statements are good, property deed, auto registration documents that verify the non citizen is in the country legally and a lawful resident. You can then purchase a firearm legally and posses that firearm in accordance with the laws of the state your in, the laws very, my CCW is not valid in California for example though currently 23 states do recognize it.
You would be allowed to purchase handguns in accordance to the laws applicable within the State, some cities do have handgun restrictions such as Chicago, San Francisco Washington D.C. though they are exceptions and besides if you wanted a second home those are not exactly places any one would really care to live.
Hunting is handled by residency as well, if your a resident of a state,you would be able to obtain a hunting license and most likely hunt. This really varies by state and type of game. Hunting deer for example in arizona is done by a lottery, to draw a tag, a license is no guarantee you will draw a tag. Some Eastern states with more restrictive laws will have an abundance of game animals so hunting is easier, though in Arizona you can almost always hunt dove or quail for example.
Shooting, lots of public land in a state such as Arizona so shooting is much easier than in many parts of the U.S.
The last question regarding concealed carry, Arizona will only require lawful residency, so even a Citizen of the United Kingdom can obtain a CCW (concealed carry of Weapons) lawfully.
What is all comes down too is being a lawful resident, owning property will not be sufficient, you need to reside in the state at least six months a year and prove it, some state residency is obtained after a year, and of course the firearms will most certainty always remain U.S. residents.

[Chuck]

But if you buy as a private sale (no straw purchases) then that's OK....ID stuff etc applies only if buying from a firearms dealer does it not..so I have been told....

Anyway, you can pick up a wee condo for $30,0000....and the rest is just patience....

Got a HP USP .40cal on the horizon.....for the US only of course

[Scotsgun]

Thanks for the advice...now i just need to win the lottery for that farmm in France, forest in Scotland and now home in the US!

[Chuck]

Why people need a gun....and how the person taking you call can get you killed.....!!!!!!!!!!

More interest in the life of the prdator than the victim,,nowt new there eh!.


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