Reading the wind without flags

[ovenpaa]

I shoot out to 1200 yards at Barton Road in Cambridge. BR is an MoD range and has firing points from 100 metres to 1200 yards. BR is flanked by mature trees for virtually the full length of the range with the final 100m to the frames being wide open to the elements. Visible flags comprise of a range flag high left of the butts, the butts flag itself which is lowered for shooting to commence and a flag at the entrance again exposed so not a lot to work on.

Having shot at probably every point from 100m to 1200y I know the range fairly well and windage is an instinctive thing to get me centred on the target, the real problem is looking for external indicators of wind strength and direction between shots, mirage when it shows helps but other than that is is a hard place to call the wind.

Any pointers on ranges like this?

[Dougan]

When I saw you had posted this - I though you were going to share some of what you'd learned on the course (I'd wanted to ask for some tips, but thought it might be cheeky, having not invested the time and money in the course myself )

I don't know how the calculations would work for the BR situation - At a guess, I'd say that if the wind doesn't affect the bullet until the last 100m, then the values indicated by the flags could be greatly reduced. But then do the trees fully shelter the wind, or do certain conditions cause various air movement down the range...which could be in odd directions :?

What does our recently acquired expert think?....Mr Richards... :)

[rox]

Any pointers on ranges like this?

Someone recently recounted a story to me of being coached by Arthur Clarke at Stoney Castle many years ago. Before firing his last shot Arthur made a significant change which kept the firer in the bull. When asked what he saw that caused him to make the change Arthur explained that he'd seen a change in the bushes at one point down the range; the wind had lifted the leaves just enough to show their paler underside. I guess that's what you get when you learn your trade at places like Stoni Athi or Nakuru without flags or even much in the way of features (or maybe this is just something that is common knowledge to hunters and field shooters but less so to shooters on well appointed ranges?).

..

[IainWR]

One windy day on one of Stoni Athi or Nakuru (I think it was the latter) Neil Moxon of the RAF was coaching happily when a particualrly vicious gust blew over the metal danger sign just behind him. This toppled with that unnering accuracy of inanimate objects on a mission to land on the windage arm of the sight on Neil's own rifle. The commentary went "That'll be F****d then - 2 left and go on." Bull - to bull.

Iain

[ovenpaa]

Some ranges can be all but devoid of indicators, Ulfborg 600m firing point took me a while to learn, wind for the most comes into the valley from behind the firing point, the surrounding trees will shimmy and rustle but can can be ignored. If the wind increases on the back of my neck I aim half a minute low, if the sand picks up I aim half a minute high. The interesting part is this rule applies to wind from the same direction so there must be level where the wind channelled down the range starts to react differently at the far end. Windage is for the most a constant with some growth as the sun rises so the first sighter will show any slight changes from the previous days shooting and at most is one minute.

I tried to compare notes with a Danish sniper team one year but they just nodded sagely and then pointed to the .338LM with match Lap ammunition they are issued, they also told me they never feel the need to compensate for the wind at this range.

[Dougan]

From the replies so far, it looks like having experience of a particular range, is possibly more valuable than general experience, and that it is difficult to give general advice for a specific range....

It's interesting that you talk about making elevation changes to account for the wind - this is something that I don't do, but should be putting more thought to...I'd be interested to hear more comments about this aswell...

Anyway, I'm meant to be at home studying, not looking at the forum....so best come back to this tonight :)

[barney57]

Well I was going to say watch the trees,,,,I would say that that last 100metres with no cover would have quite an effect on the round,, whilst the first 100 wouldnt,,,whilst anything over 300 has to be allowed for, unless the wind is of course Oblique to the range,,with the possible exception of height maybe to the MPI??

Shooting up or down hill is again a Different matter with the effects of gravity...dont you think??

[WhizzyBill]

I shoot out to 1200 yards at Barton Road in Cambridge. BR is an MoD range and has firing points from 100 metres to 1200 yards. BR is flanked by mature trees for virtually the full length of the range with the final 100m to the frames being wide open to the elements. Visible flags comprise of a range flag high left of the butts, the butts flag itself which is lowered for shooting to commence and a flag at the entrance again exposed so not a lot to work on.

Having shot at probably every point from 100m to 1200y I know the range fairly well and windage is an instinctive thing to get me centred on the target, the real problem is looking for external indicators of wind strength and direction between shots, mirage when it shows helps but other than that is is a hard place to call the wind.

Any pointers on ranges like this?

Fundamentally, when you have nothing useful to see, (flags/mirage/rain), you have to use your other senses, so feel and instinct (i.e. experience) will play a big part in your initial sight setting. Once you have fired a shot, you at least have one more piece of evidence on which to base your wind call.

If you fail to connect with your first shot, then I find that prayer works as well as most things for the next shot!

Any range without usable visual indicators is going to be a "challenge". That was always the case with Mere and I had heard that Barton Road was not dissimilar, albeit more sheltered than Mere.

[ovenpaa]

Well I was going to say watch the trees,,,,I would say that that last 100metres with no cover would have quite an effect on the round,, whilst the first 100 wouldnt,,,whilst anything over 300 has to be allowed for, unless the wind is of course Oblique to the range,,with the possible exception of height maybe to the MPI??

Shooting up or down hill is again a Different matter with the effects of gravity...dont you think??

The Barton road range I cited as an example is a good example of this, the wind can be blowing 20mph from the left yet I need just under 3 minutes of wind at 1000 yards. I seldom go over 3.5 minutes. I do remember one bitingly cold and very windy February morning at 1000. I had added a lot (For the location) of wind in and asked Christel who was next to me shooting 147's what she had dialled in, she replied she was aiming just to the side of the 'V' which staggered me until I realised she was deliberately aiming at frame 5 to get on frame 6 :lol: :lol:

Shooting up and down hill, I am always slightly surprised that -15 degrees and + 15 degree shots both need virtually the same elevation which is less than shooting at level.

[barney57]

I shoot out to 1200 yards at Barton Road in Cambridge. BR is an MoD range and has firing points from 100 metres to 1200 yards. BR is flanked by mature trees for virtually the full length of the range with the final 100m to the frames being wide open to the elements. Visible flags comprise of a range flag high left of the butts, the butts flag itself which is lowered for shooting to commence and a flag at the entrance again exposed so not a lot to work on.

Having shot at probably every point from 100m to 1200y I know the range fairly well and windage is an instinctive thing to get me centred on the target, the real problem is looking for external indicators of wind strength and direction between shots, mirage when it shows helps but other than that is is a hard place to call the wind.

Any pointers on ranges like this?

Fundamentally, when you have nothing useful to see, (flags/mirage/rain), you have to use your other senses, so feel and instinct (i.e. experience) will play a big part in your initial sight setting. Once you have fired a shot, you at least have one more piece of evidence on which to base your wind call.

If you fail to connect with your first shot, then I find that prayer works as well as most things for the next shot!

Any range without usable visual indicators is going to be a "challenge". That was always the case with Mere and I had heard that Barton Road was not dissimilar, albeit more sheltered than Mere.

See we shoot at Willsworthy on Dartmoor these are both gallery and ETR ranges,, and you would be hard pressed to find a more open arsed range, open to every element you can think off from any direction,,,,you always have to allow for the fact that in anything over 100mtrs there the conditions can be very very different at the firing point to what it is at the target,,,,quite often we have to aim half or a whole target width off left or right to be on target,,,thats with Figure 11 Targets.@ 300...its surprising...