Not another Glock

24" and less, a place to discuss all things handgun related, section 7.3. Long barrelled revolvers, long barrelled pistols and section 5. Overseas contributions are more than welcome.

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Rarms
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Re: Not another Glock

#41 Post by Rarms »

Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?
I would suggest the one built on a glock lower is Sec. 5.

That doesn't make it illegal, it just means you are never going to buy it on a Sec. 1 license.
MistAgain wrote:
Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?
Because for the best part of two years he assured us he was going to get a genuine Glock LBP built for him and imported.....
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Re: Not another Glock

#42 Post by Gh0st »

Rarms wrote:
Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?
I would suggest the one built on a glock lower is Sec. 5.

That doesn't make it illegal, it just means you are never going to buy it on a Sec. 1 license.
MistAgain wrote:
Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?
Because for the best part of two years he assured us he was going to get a genuine Glock LBP built for him and imported.....
Yup but it was shocking so bad my Ruger built instead!
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

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Re: Not another Glock

#43 Post by MistAgain »

Gh0st wrote:
Rarms wrote:
Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?
I would suggest the one built on a glock lower is Sec. 5.

That doesn't make it illegal, it just means you are never going to buy it on a Sec. 1 license.
MistAgain wrote:
Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?
Because for the best part of two years he assured us he was going to get a genuine Glock LBP built for him and imported.....
Yup but it was shocking so bad my Ruger built instead!
I do wonder about the legality of that Ruger as well !
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Re: Not another Glock

#44 Post by BamBam »

For a lot of people the confiscation of the L1A1 straight pulls is still fresh in their memory.
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Re: Not another Glock

#45 Post by Blackstuff »

MistAgain wrote: Taurus revolvers are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

GSG pistols are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

Glock look alikes are legal if they do not have a Glock frame .
Its this that confuses me. At the Taurus and GSG factories there are not UK spec frames made for either gun. The same frames for both the Taurus Mod 66 and GSG 1911 'rest of the world' and UK spec are made at the same time on the same machines. Once they have all been made a small number are taken to a different part of the factory where coat hangers are attached. These Section 5 frames are made into a Section 1 format in the respective factories.

Are we then saying that because its done in the makers factory (if it in fact is, and not done by some kind of subsidiary, possibly on another site...), that is fine, but if that factory sold the unaltered frames to another company, say a mile down the road, that second company couldn't 'convert' them and send them to the UK in a S1 format? That sounds like something that could only be determined in a court to me and so far no one has provided a case reference?
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Re: Not another Glock

#46 Post by Gh0st »

Blackstuff wrote:
MistAgain wrote: Taurus revolvers are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

GSG pistols are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

Glock look alikes are legal if they do not have a Glock frame .
Its this that confuses me. At the Taurus and GSG factories there are not UK spec frames made for either gun. The same frames for both the Taurus Mod 66 and GSG 1911 'rest of the world' and UK spec are made at the same time on the same machines. Once they have all been made a small number are taken to a different part of the factory where coat hangers are attached. These Section 5 frames are made into a Section 1 format in the respective factories.

Are we then saying that because its done in the makers factory (if it in fact is, and not done by some kind of subsidiary, possibly on another site...), that is fine, but if that factory sold the unaltered frames to another company, say a mile down the road, that second company couldn't 'convert' them and send them to the UK in a S1 format? That sounds like something that could only be determined in a court to me and so far no one has provided a case reference?
Welcome to the uninformed Grey zone of the law.

I was trying to find the case that went to court on theS&W LBR as it got thrown out.
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk
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Re: Not another Glock

#47 Post by Sim G »

If the firearm is made as a UK spec in its first incarnation, then no issues. If that first incarnation is made to the spec of a UK prohibited weapon, then regardless of what is done to convert that weapon to UK s1, it will be regarded for all intents and purposes, a prohibited weapon if imported.

The reference to Glock framed LBPs and S&W revolvers is based on the fact that neither Glock or S&W will supply frames separately. Hence, to have a UK spec Glock or S&W it would have had to come from a converted weapon and so remaining prohibited.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Sim G
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Re: Not another Glock

#48 Post by Sim G »

Gh0st wrote:
Welcome to the uninformed Grey zone of the law.

I was trying to find the case that went to court on theS&W LBR as it got thrown out.

This “case” has the same mythical existence as a unicorn. I believe it doesn’t exist, nor has it ever.

Cases involving converted weapons have rarely generated precedent because the legislation is self evident.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Re: Not another Glock

#49 Post by Gh0st »

Sim G wrote:
Gh0st wrote:
Welcome to the uninformed Grey zone of the law.

I was trying to find the case that went to court on theS&W LBR as it got thrown out.

This “case” has the same mythical existence as a unicorn. I believe it doesn’t exist, nor has it ever.

Cases involving converted weapons have rarely generated precedent because the legislation is self evident.
Well they hold about as much gravitas as your opinion, unless you’re a lawyer too? And last time I checked you weren’t, your opinions are as grey as the law they are based on..
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk
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Sim G
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Re: Not another Glock

#50 Post by Sim G »

But, the law isn’t grey in this regard!! This is what this whole debacle is about. No, I’m not a lawyer, but have a vast experience of the law as a profession and an interest in firearms that has made me more acutely aware than an awful lot of lawyers I know.

Do you honestly think that I, or anyone else has joined and contributed to this and other threads to somehow bully or denigrate you? No, far from it. Firstly, despite that you have spent several thousand pounds on a firearm that is believed to be prohibited, no one wants to see you go to prison. Likewise, as a shooting community, we don’t want to see LBRs all over the papers again so that the Home Sec. declares them and once again we have property confiscated, this time without compensation.

If you end up on B wing HMP Big House, then 600 quid will have seemed cheap to avoid it. Seek a specialist criminal barrister and pay for his opinion. Make sure you tell him everything you know or even suspect about the vagaries of your LBR, and get his considered opinion.

It may very well be contrary to mine. Hopefully it is then I can get Wilson to build me an S&W! But frankly I don’t have enough crayons to explain it to you any more.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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