A Max's now categorised as expanding ammunition

[ovenpaa]

From another forum.

Apparently Devon and Cornwall firearms department now consider Hornady A Max's to be expanding ammunition and a gun shop in the area will no longer sell them for target use as they are classed as expanding.

I have a few hundred A Max's in .224 and .308, I might even have a few 6.5's - if this is true I am now breaking the law as I do not have permission to hold expanding ammunition on my FAC. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

[Robin128]

I would ask your FEO an open question today as to whether his/her Force considers A max to be expanding. If so you are arguably illegal if you do not have expanding on FAC. And you know what the sentence for that is.

They certainly look expanding.

I use V Max for fox and therefore have expanding on FAC.

http://www.hornady.com/store/A-MAX

http://www.hornady.com/store/V-MAX-bullets/

I wonder what the designation process is under FA Acts re new bullets entering the market that have similar tips to these.

Some hollow points used to be a bone of contention ie Sierra MatchKings but they are not considered expanding.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm? ... &brandID=1

And if one needs to use flat nosed bullets for tube fed underlevers, the use of the lead headed expanding bullets are ok provided FAC shows you have one. Several dealers take this line with me, even before I had expanding on ticket.

http://www.hornady.com/store/.308-30-CAL/?page=4

[ovenpaa]

Today is not an option as the department appears to be closed for the weekend so I will give them a call after the bank holiday. If this is true it could put a lot of people in an awkward position, both hunters and target shooters as they could be potentially holding far more than they are licensed for, or holding ammunition they are not licensed for at all.

[Sandgroper]

No haven't heard this before.

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-168-gr-A-MAX/

*Match bullets are not recommended for hunting medium & large game

and from http://www.ukdeer.com/RIFLESCALSEQUIP/R ... ITION.html

Target:- Generally the most expensive bullets as extreme accuracy requires bullet weight consistency and tight dimensional tolerances. Target rounds are generally pointed like the full metal jacket round (below) but there are other variations. Some have a hollow tip (like the design shown) whilst others have hollow tips with a conical plastic tip embedded (such as the illustrated Hornady A-max). Target bullets are not restricted and may be purchased by anyone and by mail order. It is difficult to generalise but target bullets are generally fired at velocities of 2,500 to 3,500 feet per second.

D&C Police might be basing their decision (if true) on appearences or because Hornady's TAP-FPD ammunition is loaded with A-MAX's

http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-168-gr-FPD/

[Robin128]

I have asked BASC but I guess they will also be closed 'till Tuesday.

You know expanding bullets count as loaded ammo for the sake of numbers.

[Sandgroper]

From http://www.airgunbbs.com/archive/index. ... 42923.html

If warwickshire Police have there way, you will all be off for a 5 year stretch !
I'll follow it up with BASC tomorrow.

Read from the bottom up;-

Subject: RE: Question re Hornady A-max bullets ?
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:18:45 +0100
From: "Matthew Perring (Firearms)" <Matthew.Perring@basc.....uk>
To: My - e-mail address removed.

Dear Mr W,

Having spoken to Hornady in the USA, the bullets your refer to i.e. A max are designed to expand
on impact in the same way as V max missiles and you would need specific authority on your firearms
certificate to purchase and acquire these bullets or ammunition contain such missiles.

The only other type of ammunition for match use which looks like an expanding bullet is the Sierra
match king which is not designed to expand on impact.

I hope this answers your question

Yours truly,



Matthew Perring
Firearms Officer
British Association for Shooting and Conservation,



-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Perring (Firearms)
Sent: 25 September 2006 14:56
To: My - e-mail address removed.
Subject: RE: Question re Hornady A-max bullets ?

Dear Mr W,

All I can advise you is that any ammunition "designed" to expand upon impact is classed as section
5 prohibited weapons unless you have a requirement to use such ammunition for quarry shooting.

As far as I am aware all V max bullets made by hornady are designed to expand on impact and A max
are standard target ammunition. However looking at Hornady documents, there seems to be very
similar designs between A and V Max.

I will investigate this issue and if necessary involve the Forensic Science Service through the
British Shooting Sport Council (BSSC) and the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).

I will be in touch as soon as I can

Best wishes

Matthew Perring
Firearms Officer
British Association for Shooting and Conservation,


-----Original Message-----
From: Mr W
Sent: 25 September 2006 14:27
To: Firearms
Subject: Question re Hornady A-max bullets ?

Hi There,

I'm a BASC member (#) & as you can see from the mails below, MidwayUK have held a
shipment, as they class Hornady A-Max match ammo as "expanding" ! Now I have always been lead to
believe that its match ammo & that the V-Max range are the expanding ones.

Can you give your opinion on this & or enquire with Warwickshire Police regarding this ? I'll
place my order minus them for now, but many of my club mates that use these could be breaking the
law if Warwickshire Police are to be believed !

Thanks

Mr W.

--- Gavin Mair <midwayuk.com> wrote:

> From: "Gavin Mair" <midwayuk.com>
> To: "'Mr W'"
> Subject: RE: Midway UK order xxxxxxx
> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:04:21 +0100
>
> Dear Mr W,
>
> We have conferred with Warwickshire Police Firearms and they concur with
> us in that these are expanding and not match. As you appreciate we have
> to be very careful in these matters and appreciate your understanding.
>
<SNIP>
>
> Once again sorry for this inconvenience.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Gavin Mair
> Midway UK Ltd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mr W
> Sent: 25 September 2006 09:09
> To: Gavin Mair
> Subject: Re: Midway UK order xxxxxxxx
>
> Hi Gavin,
>
> Well that's news to me, V-max are expanding, A-max are classed as match
> ammo anywhere else I've
> bought them. But if your company insists on mis-classifying them then
> please remove them from the
> order & ship the rest.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mr W.
>
> --- Gavin Mair <midwayuk.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Mr W,
> >
> >
> >
> > Our system placed a hold on your order as it has correctly highlighted
> > the 'Hornady A-Max Bullets 22 Caliber' as expanding ammunition and as
> > such this needs to be collected or purchased face to face on
> production
> > of your FAC. Our 'Ordering Information' page explains this, I have
> > copied it below:
> >
> > EXPANDING AMMUNITION - BULLET HEADS
> >
> > We cannot post expanding bullet heads direct to the customer, it is a
> > legal requirement that all such ammunition be purchased face to face
> > with a Registered Firearms Dealer (RFD) who will need to check your
> > firearms certificate to ensure that you have a variation that entitles
> > you to these items. All other bullets i.e. full metal Jacket, match
> and
> > lead cast bullets can be shipped direct to you the customer.
> >
> > If wish to purchase expanding bullet heads we will need you to provide
> > us with your local RFD details and we will need to confirm that they
> > will accept these on your behalf. If the RFD has an account with us we
> > can ship to them, if not we will require them to fax their RFD
> > certificate (we can do this on your behalf if you can supply us with
> > their contact details). Once this is done you can place the order with
> > their address as an 'alternative delivery address' when you place the
> > order. Once this arrangement is in place all future orders from
> MidwayUK
> > that require validation of your firearms certificate can be shipped to
> > your local RFD. If you have any queries please do not hesitate to
> > contact customer service at: midwayuk.com or by telephone on:
> 0845
> > 22 66 055.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Gavin Mair
> > Midway UK Ltd

The thing is, this conversation is from 2006 and the last time I bought A-max's from MidayUK was in 2010 no questions asked! :G My first A-Max order was in 2008.

[Robin128]

Beggers belief doesn't it?

:evil:

Those already with expanding on ticket better recount to include A max if they have them, reloaded or just bullets...at least as far as Warwick is concerned.

Why do people have to go out of their way to screw us legal shooters???

What difference does it make...are we all going around using expanding to shoot people?

Is there an inherent risk? Arguably but it has to be V small.

:evil: :evil:

I buy V max online from SGC...never ask about FAC expanding condition ...unless they hold a copy of my FAC...I've bought enough guns from them...don't know. But that's Exeter and Dorset Forces.

:?:

[ovenpaa]

This rings a bell but I am sure they were reclassified a couple of years later.

The good news is I can easily 'reclassify' them with a hammer in just a few minutes. I have never loaded with A Max's despite having them, they were picked up with the intention of testing with them one day but I never got around to it.

[Alpha1]

I use 155g A max in my 308 have done for a long time all ways bought them over the counter never had a problem buying them.
I have several hundred of them on my reloading bench. ?

[spud]

ill buy any 6.5 140g amaxs that people want to get rid off , if that helps as i use only them