Reload Swiss and Military Surplus Rifles

[WelshShooter]

I handload for a handful of military surplus rifles (Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 303brit, Yugoslavian M48 Mauser 8x57mm IS, Finnish Mosin Nagant 7.62x53mmR) and predominantly use RS50, RS60 and Viht N140 powders for loading jacketed bullet weights between 155gr and 200gr.

Should the nitroglycerine containing powders (RS52 and RS60) be avoided for military surplus rifles, and therefore I should stick with the non-nitroglycerine containing powders such as RS50?

[kennyc]

for my K31, I use entirely RL17 (not sure what its reload swiss number is possibly RS60 ) as long as you don't use hot loads there is unlikely to be any problems

[Andy RV]

Are the single base powders giving you the performance you desire? If so there's no need to change.

[Lancs Lad]

I also use R17 for my K31. Works just fine.

LL

[meles meles]

We shoot a variety of battle rifles, including all those mentioned, and use Reload Swiss powders in them all. As us don't shoot them at ranges beyond 600 mards, we use a reduced power load based for them all, mainly with H&N or Dodgy Roger's cast bullets. We find RS30 ideal for this. There is a page on the Reload Swiss website about reduced power loads and if you email them they will get back to you with some additional data. Dromia is very helpful too when asked about lower power loads for older rifles.

[WelshShooter]

Yes, Reloder 17 is similar to RS60 and also contains nitroglycerine according to the SDS.

I think 600 yards is going to be the limit for me also, unless there is going to be news about use of Sennybridge F range (but that's due to the consultation on 50cal etc).

I have almost a full tub of RS30 to use at my disposal, but instil then I have a fair few jacketed bullets that need my attention! I'll have to fire them off an email at some point.

The performance I desire is firstly accuracy, and secondly is to have the sight gradients match my ammo as closely as is possible, as I do not use scopes with these rifles. For example, I've managed to get good accuracy and matching sight gradients when using RS60 and 180gr S&B bullets with my Lee Enfield, I was not able to achieve both with RS50. I've only used RS50 in my Yugo, and I've just loaded up some 185gr Scenar's for my Mosina using RS60 (normally used N140 with 155gr Scenar's).

[rox]

Yes, Reloder 17 is similar to RS60 and also contains nitroglycerine according to the SDS.

Reloader 17 *is* RS60.

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[ukrifleman]

Yes, Reloder 17 is similar to RS60 and also contains nitroglycerine according to the SDS.

Reloader 17 *is* RS60.

..

I think you will find that RS60 is a single based powder and Rel 17 is double based, although they are similar in burn rate.

ukrifleman.

[Laurie]

Yes, Reloder 17 is similar to RS60 and also contains nitroglycerine according to the SDS.

Reloader 17 *is* RS60.

..

I think you will find that RS60 is a single based powder and Rel 17 is double based, although they are similar in burn rate.

ukrifleman.

No!, No!, and No!. They are one and the same thing - Nitrochemie EI-Niesen 145 works product code.

It is technically not a double-based powder but a 'high-energy' variant of a single-based type. This is how Nitrochemie's material can say that all RS powders are 'single-base' without lying, but there is a bit in the way of using semantics here disingenuously IMO. A true double-based type has both elements in the base product mix from an early production stage, whereas 'high-energy' variants start as a normal single base NC only type before going through a nitroglycerin infusion process.

Both Viht N500 series powder and RS52, 60, 70 etc use the infusion technology. (In fact Nitrochemie invented the process and sold it to Vihtavuori Oy many years ago, but Nitrochemie says that while the Finns have changed little or nothing since then, it has developed and improved the process considerably for the RS products.)

Almost every powder recently introduced has some nitroglycerin in it. For instance whilst all Dupont origin IMR 'legacy' grades such as 4895 and 4064 that are now Reach non-compliant are single-based and have identical specific energy ratings, the new 'Enduron' powders (IMR-4166, 4451, 4955, 7977 etc) all have some nitroglycerin in them, as with every Alliant Reloder type whether old or new, and usually under 10% by weight. The older Viht N500 powders have much higher nitroglycerin levels - over 40% by weight in N540 for instance.

I have seen it said a few times that Nitrochemie RS60 / Alliant Re17 was originally developed for the Swiss GP11 7.5X55mm standard ball load many years ago and all recent Swiss government contract manufacture of that cartridge uses it. I've not seen confirmation but wouldn't be unduly surprised if it were so. The standard military loading uses very modest pressures and despite this being a 'hot' powder capable of very high MVs in high-pressure loads, I doubt if 40-45,000 psi type levels see any extra barrel wear over loads needed to provide equivalent ballistic performance from a nitrocellulose only type.

Use RS60's EI deterrent infusion technology to wring another 100-200 fps out of a cartridge like the 6XC at 60,000 psi plus though and that's a very different plate of Strudel - you can reckon on nearly halving barrel life.

[WelshShooter]

Hi Laurie. Thanks for the wealth of information! Very useful to know.

As I read it, is RS60 only degrading barrel life when you are towards the higher end of the pressure scale? Or does it not matter whether you are lower in pressure, thus being on the "cooler" ends? If you see my thread on the Finnish Mosin Nagant you will see that RS60 performs very well even though I am well below maximum load levels.