Discount ammunition

[froggy]

That is by the entrance ... the real stock is behind armoured doors

[poll007]

You can possess something without actually having it in your possession, buying something is just the act of transferring title and when you do that you then possess the ammunition whether you physically have it or not.

Quite right !! Constructive possession - same as the soccer hooligan who possesses the knife despite it being a few yards away concealed in his girlfriends clothing to avoid a pat down search !

Placing and order ( and paying for it up front ) of 5000 rds when you have authority to possess 1000 would be an issue.

However, telling your RFD that you intend to use 5000 rds over a certain period of time and will it be ok to pop in for a 1000 every so often would be ok.

Only problem would be - as the 10 individuals cannnot pay up front for the ammo without constructively possessing it, the RFD would have to pay for it and await the payment in dribs and drabs.

I have heard of people doing the above and then giving the RFD a cash gift ( nothing to do with a transaction of course ) that by sheer coincidence equaled the amount owed for the ammo. But that, is suspect at best and leaves the RFD at risk of losing his RFD at worst. I wont name the idiot who risked his living and only source of income !!

And if, say 10 individuals do elect to go the "unofficial route" and the RFD ships in 50k of ammo and then surprise surprise gives all of it to the same 10 people over the next year - all it take is for one falling out or indiscreet word for the authorities to get involved and then the paper trail would leave it obvious what was done.

So, trust would be needed....................

There is a really simple solution to this:

make customer accounts, loads of companies have accounts for customers where they can pay money in (the company i work for does this for timber frames).

customers pays in money to their account, RFD uses this money to then buy ammo.

customer then comes and buys ammo whenever the need some and the money can come out of their account.

its no different to topping up a phone or oyster card account or anything else. you havnt bought the ammo at the start, only paid into an account.

[dromia]

You obviously pay into an account for the purpose of buying something related to the account.

[froggy]

So what Dromia ? If you left money with a retailer, it does not mean you own any part of his stock.
In any case, if an item is not paid in full you dont have tittle to it , ie : if 5k of 7,62x39 is GBP 1K and if the "crowd funder" has paid only £ 999 into an account, he does not own 5k rounds of 7,62x39 ...

[ovenpaa]

One thing to consider for the RFD is secure storage and weight capacity of the area, from memory 25k of 7,62x51 NATO was around 800kgs inc packaging last time.. or RFH in simple terms.

[dromia]

Regarding the account, surely that money would be held on account for the subscriber to draw down on for legal purchases and shouldn't be used by the RFD to buy ammunition.

Regardless it isn't to me that the argument needs to be made but to the HO and Firearms certification.

I suppose at the end of the day they would need to be satisfied about the intent of any such account arrangement and it would need to demonstrate that it wasn't being used to break any laws, as we are dealing with restricted items here.

[froggy]

Regarding the account, surely that money would be held on account for the subscriber to draw down on for legal purchases and shouldn't be used by the RFD to buy ammunition.

I dont see why ? Maybe the nice shooter will buy GBP 5k of cleaning patch ? who know ? Not much different than the concept of "gift vouchers" that can be redeemed against any items for sale & as far I know , the money does not have to be kept by the retailer against a specific item. Here the nice shooter is merely helping his nice & friendly supplier to secure supplies that he may need at a furture point within the limits set by his FAC.

[dromia]

I wasn't saying the money had to kept for a specific item, just that it would have to be kept. Therefore the RFD would still have to fork out for a bulk buy of ammunition up front and then draw on the buyers account money in dribs and drabs when the buyer had space on the FAC so not really addressing the original idea of people buying in up front for a bulk buy of ammunition.

As I have said all of this is just futile speculation as none of us are in a position to make a call on its legality.

[froggy]

In practice, the shooter gives some fund to the retailer so the retailer secure "supplies" on his behalf .
It is that simple , but you are correct , a quick chat with the authorities to clarify the best way to do it legally would help.

[Rockhopper]

Froggy, I thought that the principle had been established that paying a deposit equals possession?