Dragunov/Izhmash Tigr owners that reload

[snayperskaya]

I know there are some Dragunov/Tigr owners beside myself on here and I have a question for those that reload for theirs.

Mine has a Russian domestic market spec barrel, meaning that it has a feature in the chamber that causes a ring at the base of the case neck on firing (this is a feature on Russian civilian firearms chambered in 7.62x54r and 7.62x39 since 1995 and in the event of a shooting allows Russian law enforcement to determine whether it was a civilian or military rifle involved).

I only neck size with a Lee Loader and on prepping some PPU cases I've fired once I noticed that the "ring" has caused the case neck to shorten slightly (around 0.2-0.4mm)......my question is will/does a standard full length resizing die remove the ring and restore the case length???.

I know some Saiga AKs over here have this feature as well so if any 7.62x39 reloaders have any experience of this feel free to comment.

[Sim G]

I'm going to throw a little into the mix for you....

You should be full length sizing anyway! Neck sizing only is not recommended for semi-auto rifles. Now before you get on to me, "It's a straight pull numb nuts...!!", you are still replicating the loading procedure by hand. On top of this, it's my belief you should be crimping as well!

The reasons are the cartridge to chamber dimensions on a neck sized only case, are so tight that reliability can be affected. Likewise, the angle of feed from mag to chamber and even the force of the recoil Spring alone driving a round, can do so with such force that should the cartridge smash into the mouth of the chamber on its way to being seated, the bullet can be pushed back into the case and the COL shortened.

[snayperskaya]

If any round slammed into the mouth of the chamber it could push the bullet back surely? if that happened there would be a feed issue somewhere regardless of the ammunition.I have had zero feed issues with many rounds and the neck-sized only rounds extract no differently from any other round.

Before I actually reloaded any rounds I made some dummy rounds and cycled them over and over, using the full force of the recoil spring to drive the bolt carrier/bolt forward and had no problems with bullet displacement.

[Sim G]

If any round slammed into the mouth of the chamber it could push the bullet back surely? if that happened there would be a feed issue somewhere regardless of the ammunition.

Yes, the cartridge would be shortened. That's what I said. A feed issue could come about purely because of pressure applied to the magazine externally which could alter the feed angle. Having ammunition that helps prevent bullets being pushed back into the case in the one in a million event is the point. I'm simply passing on what I was taught over 30 years ago when reloading for proper semis. Research will no doubt see the same advice solicited by many. Your loads, your rifle, brother....

[snayperskaya]

If any round slammed into the mouth of the chamber it could push the bullet back surely? if that happened there would be a feed issue somewhere regardless of the ammunition.

Yes, the cartridge would be shortened. That's what I said. A feed issue could come about purely because of pressure applied to the magazine externally which could alter the feed angle. Having ammunition that helps prevent bullets being pushed back into the case in the one in a million event is the point. I'm simply passing on what I was taught over 30 years ago when reloading for proper semis. Research will no doubt see the same advice solicited by many. Your loads, your rifle, brother....

What I meant was if a round being fed hit the wall of the chamber rather than feeding into the mouth surely it could push the bullet back even if it was crimped?.What about bullets that have no cannulure?.

The rounds I have loaded so far have really good neck tension but I'll take on board what you've said and crimp them

[Sim G]

Yes, I suppose they could, but, less likely if crimped I reckon. But that's only half of it! have a little look at this.

From Sierra....

Sizing

Full length sizing is the only option in the Service Rifle world. Minimal sizing does have its place in bolt actions, particularly where top accuracy is the goal. It can also be used in some other types of actions when reliability is not a top priority. However, anything other than full length resizing is a potentially serious problem with the Service Rifle. The case needs to be resized to the point that it will enter the chamber freely, completely and with absolutely no hint of resistance whatsoever. Failure to follow this simple practice is an invitation to some major headaches.

The most common problem is the failure to fully chamber the round. This is troublesome at best. Considering the force with which the bolt slams home, it can also wedge the round tightly enough in the chamber that it is very difficult to extract without damaging the rifle. In the worst case scenario, it sets the stage for an out-of-battery firing when the trigger is pulled. Improper or insufficient resizing, particularly when combined with a high primer, is also a leading cause of slam-fires.


Neck Sizing

Neck sizing is a popular technique among accuracy-minded reloaders and frequently an effective way to improve accuracy. In essence, it amounts to sizing only the neck portion of the case while leaving the remainder of the shoulder and body untouched. This provides that “custom-fit” of the brass to chamber that so many shooters are working toward. Chambering a cartridge that has been neck-sized will normally give some slight resistance to closing the bolt. This is perfectly normal and to be expected when using this technique. While it’s a minor detail with the powerful camming forces of a bolt-action, this can be a serious problem with a service rifle. It can cause a failure to fully seat and chamber, effectively jamming the rifle. If the lugs have partially engaged, this can be a very difficult stoppage to clear. Under extreme circumstances, it can even lead to a slam-fire. The solution to these aggravating and potentially dangerous problems is simple: Don’t neck size for semi-auto rifles. For any reason. Ever.


Link to entire article.
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

[bigfathairybiker]

I think what simg is getting at is that if a neck sized only round doesn't chamber properly due to the rest of it being a tight fit in the chamber then round can then fire partially out of battery.
With a full length sizing it should chamber perfectly without hindrance.

I'll have to check with someone about this because someone who recently started reloading for a VZ-58 had two out of battery incidents. The second destroyed the rifle!

Mark

[snayperskaya]

The neck-sized cases I've reloaded chamber perfectly, even when chambering a round by slowly pushing the bolt carrier forward by hand rather than letting it go..... and with the Dragunov if a round didn't chamber fully nothing would happen if the trigger was inadvertently pulled as the safety sear doesn't trip and set the hammer until the bolt is in battery and there is a "tail" on the rear of the bolt carrier that prevents the hammer hitting the end of the firing pin unless the bolt is in battery.

[bigfathairybiker]

With that info I would say carry on neck sizing.

Mark

[ovenpaa]

The Viking owned one several years ago and we always full length sized the brass.