Early target rifles 7.62 Nato or .308

[Alpha1]

Would early target rifles converted military rifles have been chambered in .308 or 7.62 Nato when being re barrelled.

[ovenpaa]

Early ones were 7,62x51

[Maggot]

No doubt Rox or Steve East can correct this if I am wrong but...

The thing to do was to fit them with a tighter than normal bore as the issued bullets at the time were nearer .306" (least the examples I have measured are).

So ally this to the slightly different chamber spec, the usual pressure spec argument, and in some cases bunging a .308 round into one of these rifles with the right set of circs might ruin your day.

[ovenpaa]

Hello Sweetness, it must be about time to catch up on your Hitlerjugend antics again :)

A prime example would be the earlier Swing rifles, George Swenson did a deal with Schultz & Larsen for some cut rifled barrels that worked superbly with the as issued ammunition and helped to confirm Swing as a competitive target rifle. Sadly I have a feeling Steve will not be commenting on this thread.

[andrew375]

Depends on who made and chambered them. The barrel on my old P.14 actioned target rifle was made by Enfield on the same hammer forging equipment as those for other 7.62 firearms they made; therefore it is 7.62 x 51. Best thing is to check the proof mark.

To get the best accuracy out of mil. spec. ammo the barrels were routinely made udersize, I have no idea how many rounds my barrel had had through it when I bought it in the late '80s but the bore slugged out at .3068" dia. It has had over twenty thousand rounds of cast bullets through it since and maybe 2000 rounds of jacketed, but the borescope shows it to be in really good condition with little erosion or heat cracking.

it is not the actual chambering that is the concern that the NRA warn against with their 155 gr. target ammunition but the throating, that is the bit between the end of the chamber and the start of rifling.

Another issue is that a lot of these conversions were carried out by "gunsmiths" who had a very limited understanding of the actual fitting up and head-spacing of barrels. The Enfield barrels came ready chambered and threaded and came with a set of spacer washers of a selection of thickness’s. What did was to screw the barrel in against the washers in turn until you achieved a fit with the right head-space. I cannot remember if the kits came with head-space gauges but I knew two "gunsmiths" doing this work and they were using live rounds as gauges!!

The Enfield barrel kits were offered for the P.14, M98, and No.4 from what I recall and were priced at about £80 back in the mid-70's. The conversion of the No.4 was always a bit iffy due to the higher pressures and although the bolt thrust was only slightly higher, due to the smaller area of the case head, it still crowded the factor of safety; this is why rifles built on No.4 actions have been condemned by the NRA for use with 155g ammo.

[Alpha1]

Interesting stuff thanks for the info.

[Strangely Brown]

this is why rifles built on No.4 actions have been condemned by the NRA for use with 155g ammo.

The NRA withdraw that advice and said it was advisable to have No.4's reproofed to 20T, this after the shooting community demanded to know what proof the NRA had that 155Gr loads were dangerous in No.4 actions.

At the time of the conversions (1968~1975) the 144/147Gr bullet was in use, in fact the 150 Gr SMK was considered to be the accurate load in those days.

The 155 Gr was the preserve of MR shooters at that time, in fact RG/MOD studied the plot sheets of one successful MR shooter to see how the 155Gr bullet performed at long distances before adopting it for sniper use, the TR fraternity adopted it later.

[Maggot]

Hello Sweetness, it must be about time to catch up on your Hitlerjugend antics again :)

A prime example would be the earlier Swing rifles, George Swenson did a deal with Schultz & Larsen for some cut rifled barrels that worked superbly with the as issued ammunition and helped to confirm Swing as a competitive target rifle. Sadly I have a feeling Steve will not be commenting on this thread.

I was looking at a Cadet target rifle a few months back, IIRC that was a Swing.

PS....you have my number dearest

[ovenpaa]

I will give you a shout when I get a minute :)