Smooth bored service rifles

[ovenpaa]

I was looking for information on the Gewehr 98 last night as I would like one to go with my Gewehr 88 and found yet another that had been smooth bored, probably to accept .410 shot cartridges. Does anyone have an opinion on why such rifles would have been smooth bore in their later lives?

[dromia]

So they could be kept on shotgun certificates, prior to the magazine capacity restrictions.

[froggy]

Re-enactors keep smooth bore K98 on shot-gun certificate.

[zanes]

So they could be kept on shotgun certificates, prior to the magazine capacity restrictions.

Pretty sure I've seen the odd Lee Enfield adapted to "modern" S.2 standard (smooth bored, mag restricted (or single shot'd) and fixed in place).

As above, I presume this is/was for re-enactors, although I can't really understand why with re-enactment being "good reason" for a FAC?

[dromia]

Because they are too bloody hypocritical and lazy.

Don't get me started on the re-enacting community.

I know there are the odd decent ones who do value the firearms and go to the bother of getting an FAC and they have my respect as individuals, however they are in the minority.

The re-enacting community is responsible for creating that many neutered firearms in this country that one would think they are anti firearms ownership.

They wouldn't tolerate someone coming along and disabling the engine on their cherished Jeep or Zundap but think it fine to have the balls cut off perfectly good firearms of historical value.

Living history my scrotum!

[channel12]

I have the feeling that way back you didn't need a licence to possess a shotgun. And when licensing did come in to being, the licence was a postcard sized piece of card which said you were authorised to have shotguns. There wasn't a written record of what you had and you didn't need to inform the police each time you bought one. That all changed with the 1988 Act.

So back in the 1950's there lots of surplus rifles and it was a cheap way of making a .410 which anybody could buy for pest control. Don't blame the re enactors, this happened well before they appeared on the scene.

[froggy]

I presume this is/was for re-enactors, although I can't really understand why with re-enactment being "good reason" for a FAC?
Without disagreeing entirely with some of Dromia's comments, for many re-enactors, firearms is only a small side of their broad interest in uniforms, tactics, history etc that does not justify the costs & efforts of regular attendance to a shooting club

[dromia]

Then maybe they should just use new build non firing replicas rather than irreparably destroying items of historical value.

Yes many of these smooth bore were converted from the 50s onwards, I remember the adverts for them in the gun comics. However I still get re-enactors asking for historic rifles to be smooth bored for their "hobby" as well as those asking for full de-activation.

[zanes]

I presume this is/was for re-enactors, although I can't really understand why with re-enactment being "good reason" for a FAC?
Without disagreeing entirely with some of Dromia's comments, for many re-enactors, firearms is only a small side of their broad interest in uniforms, tactics, history etc that does not justify the costs & efforts of regular attendance to a shooting club

Not needed:

Good Reason
[...]
Historical re-enactment
13.69 The use of firearms in historical re-enactment is most commonly associated with the
Sealed Knot and other groups who recreate the English Civil War era, such as the English
Civil War Society. However, periods covered by re-enactors using firearms extend from the
Middle Ages to the Second World War and later. Re-enactors possessing black powder
(gunpowder) will also need an Explosives Certificate. Muzzle-loading muskets and small
cannon are classed as section 2 shotguns for certification purposes. Re-enactors may also
use imitation and de-activated firearms which are not subject to certification, especially for
the more modern period. However, re-enactors will often wish to demonstrate the workings
of their weapons in detail, and section 1 weapons will be appropriate for this purpose.
A distinction is made between battle re-enactors and those involved in historical
performance where there are characters in a public presentation using some form of a
script and rehearsals and firearms and blank ammunition may be needed as props. In the
absence of Court rulings, chief officers of police may consider that only the latter qualify for
the exemption to hold a certificate under section 12(1) of the 1968 Act (see also chapter 6).

13.70 Firearms commonly used for re-enactment may include rifles (generally bolt-action or
single shot), rifled muskets and other muzzle-loading small-arms, muzzle-loading cannon,
other artillery, and guns mounted on tanks, ships and other armoured fighting vehicles.
Many Lee-Enfield .303 “rifles” and any other rifles of World War One and Two vintage will
have been smooth-bored in the past for use as shotguns, albeit now held as section 1
weapons with large capacity or detachable magazines. For large guns with a crew, for
example, a muzzle-loading cannon over 2 inch bore, only the gun captain need hold a
firearm certificate. Live ammunition for target shooting should not generally be authorised
for weapons used for re-enactment. Antique weapons fired with blank ammunition (for
example Snider-Enfield and Martini Henry rifles used by Victorian re-enactment groups)
should be held on certificate. If any weapon is used for more than one purpose – for
example, a re-enactor may wish to hold the same weapon for muzzle-loading target
shooting – it should be able to be clarified for the chief officer of police to record the case.

13.71 Re-enactors will normally be a member of an appropriate society for the historical period
concerned and be authorised to possess firearms relating to the period and the role
played, though this is not a requirement. Some re-enactors, in particular cavalry soldiers,
may be members of several societies and play a range of roles with need for a mixture
of historical weapons. Muzzle loading pistols, including muzzle-loading revolvers used
by American Civil War re-enactors and “Western Groups”, will normally be authorised
for those playing officers, cavalry soldiers or cowboys. In cases of doubt the chief officer
of police may wish to consult

Obviously there are some firearms (primarily S.5. self loading/fully automatic I'd guess) that won't be allowed but for the original question re. bolt action rifles I don't get it. Presumably an old hangover from previous regulations?

Don't get why Dromia is still getting smoothbore/deac requests.

[saddler]

I presume this is/was for re-enactors, although I can't really understand why with re-enactment being "good reason" for a FAC?
Without disagreeing entirely with some of Dromia's comments, for many re-enactors, firearms is only a small side of their broad interest in uniforms, tactics, history etc that does not justify the costs & efforts of regular attendance to a shooting club

Nope
When I was doing it...next to nobody in the reenacting scene was ALSO in a gun club.
Their FAC was for that hobby in itself....and they had zero live ammunition authority.

The few that were also in clubs faced extra weird restrictions. ...I.e. lately police Scotland insist that the same rifle cannot be used for both hobbies, so you have to buy a second of the same caliber!
(This is "to prevent any possible mix-ups with blank & live ammunition"....!!!)

Look in the 1920's American catalogues. THOUSANDS of G98 rifles were converted to shotguns as cheap hunting arms.
More recent times saw a lot of service rifles smoothbored for collectors...as the shotgun certificate was cheaper & easier to obtain. That changed a bit post-88 with magazine restrictions....but still quite a few aaround for SGC collectors that want "a rifle" but don't have an FAC

The most common reenactor items are FAC smoothbores with original spec magazine capacity. ..or dedicated new production blank firers...or deactivated items....plus Section 5 modified to blank firing only & hired at certain events.