US to replace FMJ pistol ammo with Hollow points?

[Blu]

To put the record straight, by "brightly coloured" read "green prairie" plastic. It was a pretty much a standard colour at the time for Warsaw Pact ordnance absolutely nothing specific to make it attractive to little hands. As matter of fact it was just a shade lighter from the plastic casing of the "ink pot" anti-personal French mine that I handled.

Froggy I am more than aware the colour the butterfly mines should be as like you I've seen them. The fact is mate from numerous sources, from NGO's to volunteer medical staff to folks who went over after the war to clear mines, butterfly mines were painted in different colours.

So once again nothing specific or sinister to target civilian population let alone children.

So if not to target civilians, why bother painting them?

but this entire toy mines is pure Bull-Sh*t .

th2.jpg (8.82 KiB) Viewed 699 times

Pfm 1.jpg (7.35 KiB) Viewed 699 times

So all the Doctors and other medical staff, all the people who have actually seen and reported them, they're all lying then, have I got that right?

[breacher]

They dont look "designed to look like a toy" in my opinion.

As to colours - could they have been painted diferent colours at the factory to blend in with different backgrounds ? To blend in rather than be noticed ?
ie - left to right , desert, snow, woodland.

When I read this story I expected to see "toys"............

[Blu]

They dont look "designed to look like a toy" in my opinion

Breacher, fair enough mate and I understand what you write. Thing is though mate, do you think say a five year old coming across these things has the same opinion as you? In Afghanistan alone over 400,000 children have been maimed by these things.

[snayperskaya]

They dont look "designed to look like a toy" in my opinion.

As to colours - could they have been painted diferent colours at the factory to blend in with different backgrounds ? To blend in rather than be noticed ?
ie - left to right , desert, snow, woodland.

When I read this story I expected to see "toys"............

Hit the nail on the head with the colours, also as the body was plastic they were prone to fade over time due to exposure to elements.The PFM-1 mine is actually a reverse-engineered copy of the US BLU-43 mine used Vietnam etc.......but the Americans forget about all the children that were maimed over there.The PFMs' shape wasn't to make them more attractive to children (looks sod all like a bird or toy truck!), the shape was governed by aerodynamics as they were airdropped from planes and more commonly helicopters.Another thing to consider is the doctors reports of "exploding toys" came during the Anti-Soviet Cold War era so it was easier to say the Soviets were deliberately targetting children rather than saying the children were unfortunate victims of anti-personnel mines.

Is there any reports from French doctors in Vietnam that concluded the US were child killers for deploying millions of BLU-43s'???.

[breacher]

They dont look "designed to look like a toy" in my opinion

Breacher, fair enough mate and I understand what you write. Thing is though mate, do you think say a five year old coming across these things has the same opinion as you? In Afghanistan alone over 400,000 children have been maimed by these things.

Thats a totally different issue.

They were used as a weapon - an indiscriminate weapon much like carpet bombing of cities during WW2. How many children died there ?

Is targeting the civilian population ever morally ok ?

It sounds like propaganda ( look at what nasty Ivan is up to ) regarding toys and targeting children.

They were actually targeting EVERYONE with a standard issue anti personnel landmine ! Not a clever "lets disguise them as toys" scenario !!!

[snayperskaya]

They dont look "designed to look like a toy" in my opinion

Breacher, fair enough mate and I understand what you write. Thing is though mate, do you think say a five year old coming across these things has the same opinion as you? In Afghanistan alone over 400,000 children have been maimed by these things.

And how many children in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia?

Can it be said in all honesty that the Russians were any worse than the Americans?, it's just that the Russian version attracted more criticism than its US counterpart.

On a similar line there are numerous videos on YouTube of Afghan settlements being JDAM'd whilst a GI films it, usually with someone proclaiming "that was f#cking awesome Man" or something similar........

[Blu]

It sounds like propaganda ( look at what nasty Ivan is up to ) regarding toys and targeting children.

Well hey all the info along with facts and photos are out there mate. Check it out for yourself.

[Blu]

And how many children in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia?

Can it be said in all honesty that the Russians were any worse than the Americans?, it's just that the Russian version attracted more criticism than its US counterpart.

On a similar line there are numerous videos on YouTube of Afghan settlements being JDAM'd whilst a GI films it, usually with someone proclaiming "that was f#cking awesome Man" or something similar........[/quote]

Well if these numbers are anything to go by, no where near the number of killings by communists and the Kymer Rouge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_W ... n_military

[froggy]

Blu, everybody knows (or should know) that communism has been probably the most murderous ideology of all time & that a lot of its leaders have been murderously ruthless . That is not in doubt (*).

My point is that, at the time, I also fell victim of the disinformation war & believed that claim of Soviet "toy-mine". 25 years later it is very clear, I thought to everybody, that the story was a propaganda hoax : ie : yes it killed a lot of children & still does, no it was not designed to pass as a toy in order to kill children.

Despite all the terrible effects those have on civilian populations interestingly Israel, Russia & the USA have still refused to sign the Ottawa treaty that bans those mines ...


(*) it is heavy reading but may I suggest " the Black Book of Communism" by Stéphane Courtois. The French Communist party tried to have its publication banned and somehow I think you will like it

[Blu]

yes it killed a lot of children & still does, no it was not designed to pass as a toy in order to kill children.

Froggy, I never suggested or thought the design of the mine was aimed at children. Rather I was on about the reason for painting the damn things. As breacher said, painted to blend in, thing is some of the colours used, one has to wonder what kind of terrain they were thinking of and Yves, I ain't nobody's fool mate. I take most of what I read with a pinch of salt until I decide to thoroughly research it.