A question for our colonial members in the Americas

[dromia]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 18055.html

From your real world perspective has this article and the findings described therein have any merit?

[DaveB]

The same system operates in Canada and New Zealand. Once you have been established as a fit and proper person to own a firearm, all that is required to purchase a sporting (i.e. not a restricted firearm like a pistol) firearm from an individual is that you present your licence to them. (In Canada it is called a Possession and Acquisition Certificate.) They are required to ensure that you have a license (though not required to record the details unless they are a dealer). The system works well, and for the vast majority of transactions the police (thankfully) never get involved.

You have to be wary of statistics like those in the article though. The RCMP in Canada were trumpeting the success in lowering the homicide rate with firearms after much more stringent gun controls were introduced in 1978. What they very carefully avoided including was that the rate for homicides by knife, blunt instrument, car, and sundry other violent manners went up by almost exactly the same percentage. It could be argued that they did not in fact save a single life - all they did was change the manner of death. Statistics can be skewed to indicate pretty much anything you like, really.

[Sim G]

A "Right" does not need a licence. Other States have also seen a huge fall in murder rates because of a number of different provisions. Connecticut has I believe, amongst this measure, have introduced a raft of other anti gun laws to go the point that even British laws look favourable when compared...

[Chuck]

In the early '90s, gang shootings gripped Connecticut. Bystanders, including a 7-year-old girl, were getting gunned down in drive-bys. "The state is becoming a shooting gallery, and the public wants action," an editorial in the Hartford Courant said at the time.

So in the summer of 1994, lawmakers hustled through a gun control bill in a special session. They hoped to curb shootings by requiring people to get a purchasing licence before buying a handgun. The state would issue these permits to people who passed a background check and a gun safety training course.

SO gang shootings etc are resolved by punishing the innocent and law abiding - now why does that sound familiar? How many gang shootings have been prevented - pick a number between zero and none.

[Sixshot6]

The same system operates in Canada and New Zealand. Once you have been established as a fit and proper person to own a firearm, all that is required to purchase a sporting (i.e. not a restricted firearm like a pistol) firearm from an individual is that you present your licence to them. (In Canada it is called a Possession and Acquisition Certificate.) They are required to ensure that you have a license (though not required to record the details unless they are a dealer). The system works well, and for the vast majority of transactions the police (thankfully) never get involved.

You have to be wary of statistics like those in the article though. The RCMP in Canada were trumpeting the success in lowering the homicide rate with firearms after much more stringent gun controls were introduced in 1978. What they very carefully avoided including was that the rate for homicides by knife, blunt instrument, car, and sundry other violent manners went up by almost exactly the same percentage. It could be argued that they did not in fact save a single life - all they did was change the manner of death. Statistics can be skewed to indicate pretty much anything you like, really.

Pretty much what DaveB said, plus it ignores the real Elephant in the room. That New York state has had the Sullivan Act since 1911 (they got pistol licensing before we did, until 1922/23 you could get a pistol license in the uk from a post office) and their murder rate has pretty much even at its lowest been worse (most of New York's murder rate comes from NYC and a few other cities in the state) has been pretty high, even against CT (which ironically despite having pistol permits is alot more relaxed than NY, they even have widespread CCW, while NY is a postcode Lottery depending on which county you live, in NYC if you're not a celebrity or connected you can forget CCW). It also ignores that most of the US saw a drop in pretty much all homicide starting in the early to mid 90s when law enforcement was ramped up, its only with the Ferguson effect (look it up) where police actually feel like they can't do their jobs than places like NYC, Baltimore and the like are experiencing homicide not seen in 15 years. Like DaveB said, you can rig figures in your favor how you do it ,it was recently pointed out (though I've know this for years) that the British Crime Survey is rigged by capping how many times you can be a victim of a crime at 5 (so if you get burgled 6 times that 6th time isn't recorded). This was publicly stated by Professor Sylvia Walby of Lancaster University, she observed that based on what she had seen, violent and sexual crimes would rise 61 per cent without the cap (have quiet off the record chats with either police or the civilian staff and they'll have confirmed its been rigged for years).

On a back to topic note the Sullivan Act of NY was introduced by a Notorious Irish Mob linked Politician called John Sullivan who wanted the act to disarm Italian and Other competing immigrant criminal gangs to give the Irish Mob the edge. He died a sticky end not long after, mad with syphilis and his body found on a railway track after a train hit it (and even then the train driver could swear he looked dead before he hit).

[Sixshot6]

In the early '90s, gang shootings gripped Connecticut. Bystanders, including a 7-year-old girl, were getting gunned down in drive-bys. "The state is becoming a shooting gallery, and the public wants action," an editorial in the Hartford Courant said at the time.

So in the summer of 1994, lawmakers hustled through a gun control bill in a special session. They hoped to curb shootings by requiring people to get a purchasing licence before buying a handgun. The state would issue these permits to people who passed a background check and a gun safety training course.

SO gang shootings etc are resolved by punishing the innocent and law abiding - now why does that sound familiar? How many gang shootings have been prevented - pick a number between zero and none.

I'd say none chuck, keep in mind, gang crime was supposed to have down across the US, especially in places without CT's type of permit system in place. Could it be, actually taking the criminals out of commission and putting them in the big house while they got too old to do anything actually works maybe ?

Plus read my comment about the British crime Survey rigging is correct. It was actually confirmed by the City of London Police Commissioner Adrian Leppard "the notion of police recorded crime is history. It’s dead in the water". And that is from the horses mouth. They tell that many lies that when the truth comes out, it sounds more unbelievable.

[Browning_grrl]

NO amount of regulation affects criminal activity. The City of Chicago has just about the strictest gun-control regime on this Continent, and yet its gun-homicide rate is through the flippin' roof. The stats in the article are HEAVILY skewed to produce the result that the researchers wanted.

In Canada, for example, where its 'Long Gun Registry' was abolished 3 years ago, there were HUGE predictions from the anti-gunners that somehow the streets would run red with blood as a result... in fact, the exact opposite happened. More guns were bought and sold, and gun-violence stats declined significantly.

Imo, the whole gun-control industry (and that is what it is) is an absolute waste of time and space. Asshats.

[Browning_grrl]

A few years old, but germane, I think. :)


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/22194 ... 8.facebook

[DaveB]

A few years old, but germane, I think. :)


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/22194 ... 8.facebook

The Hamilton Spectator! My home town paper! Good article though.

[SevenSixTwo]

More guns = less crime. Fact™