Badger contemplates a 5.56 / .223

[saddler]

6.8SPC is very nice

[meles meles]

Isn't that th eold .280 British just given a new coat of paint?

[Laurie]

Thanks for the input, Laurie. My point was that the .223 is a contender to 1000yds "with the right barrel and bullet combination". The OP is dubious. The figures I illustrated were taken from the Sierra website, some load data and an boing "Bullet Drop" ballistics app. I wasn't calling specifics, but generalisations.

The point remains that the versatility of .223 is from one end of the spectrum to the other, with considerations given, or do you disagree with that?

No, not at all. I'm quite a fan of the mouse cartridge and won a few GB F-Class Association FTR match trophies back in 2010/11 shooting 90s in the cartridge. My sole contention is the use of 77s at long distances. These are great bullets that can produce very small groups, accept ridiculous amounts of jump, and are very easy to tune. They're not and never were meant to be anything other than short-range jobs, specifically designed for 200/300 yard rapid fire stages.

Maggot, I've no doubt that you can reasonable 600 yard results with the 77gn SMK, but if you're ever up against a properly throated single-shot rifle shooting even Sierra 80s never mind the Berger 80.5 at the sort of MVs they can be driven to, you're be 'tatered' as we say in't North. Google US XTC Service Rifle, better still get hold of Glen Zediker's book on preparing, using, and loading for the competitive AR-15 and even these guys shooting service rifle, switch to 80s and single-loading for the 600 yard stage. This discipline has the greatest number of participants of civilian 223 Rem users worldwide and competition is fierce. The 80 beats every other bullet at 600 even in 20-inch barrel match ARs.

[Sim G]

Thanks again Laurie....

So, ditch 77s in favour of 80s? In your experience, 1 in 8" twist fast enough?

[Laurie]

Isn't that th eold .280 British just given a new coat of paint?

Sadly not. The 7X43 is based on the Mauser / .30-06 / 308 etc 0.473" case-head diameter case shortened from 63mm to 43mm as an assault rifle cartridge. Hence the name 280/30 as the 30-06 case was used as the base model for this version of the GB entries in the great NATO standardised cartridge stitch-up (sorry, I meant contest).

The 6.8mm Rem SPC is based on the slimmer .30 Rem of 1910, which was basically a rimless .30-30WCF designed for a self-loading sporting rifle. Its diameter is the largest that could be accommodated in a dual-stack magazine that would fit the AR-15 platform, hence its adoption in a shortened 6.8mm (.270 cal) form. The case-head and lower body diameters of the four 'families' in contention are:

222/223/5.56:................... 0.378"
SPC: ................................ 0.422"
Grendel / 7.62 Soviet / PPC: 0.445"
Mauser / 308 etc: ...............0.473"

The 280/30 is actually very similar in size, capacity, and potential ballistics to the 7mm Rem BR. Now, what a service rifle and hence 'Target Rifle' cartridge that would have made.

[Laurie]

Thanks again Laurie....

So, ditch 77s in favour of 80s? In your experience, 1 in 8" twist fast enough?

Yes for beyond 300 yards. An eight inch twist is fine. The venerable 80gn Sierra MK is cheap and very easy to tune. The new Berger 80.5gn Fullbore is the outstanding bullet in the class, easy to tune, can be driven very fast thanks to a short bearing surface ... but isn't cheap sadly.

Most of the VLDs including the 80gn A-Max are 'finicky'. For some reason, the 75gn A-Max isn't in many barrels and can be given quite stupendous MVs with good L-R results. The only problem with this bullet is that the 223 Rem, .22BR 'foxers' have discovered it and it's been in very short supply for the last couple of years. It's starting to filter though from the US to our shops again now, but is still on back-order for a lot of gunshops.

[Laurie]

6.8SPC is very nice

Yes, it's a very nice little cartridge that does better than its paper ballistics suggest. It is very short on component choice compared to 223 though, and isn't as good ballistically as an optimised match 223 for even mid ranges. There are only some three bullets suitable for target shooting - Hannams Relcom 115 FMJBTs which are military quality bullets and only produce 1.5-2 MOA groups even with batching, the 110gn Hornady OTM, and the 115gn Sierra MK.

I'm told it's a great roedeer cartridge - a real one-shot drop 'em on the spot job with the 110gn Sierra SPT Pro-Hunter and similar. There are some straight-pull AR 6.8 shooters who use them (as American SPC fans do with their semi-autos) as dual-purpose range and deer rifles.

[Sim G]

Laurie, your input is greatly appreciated..

There's two blokes on here actually using 6.8 SPC at the moment, through Remington 700 LTRs...

[JS569]

Laurie, your input is greatly appreciated..

There's two blokes on here actually using 6.8 SPC at the moment, through Remington 700 LTRs...

I'm interested to see how 6.8SPC develops in a commercial sense and whether it's popularity increases and it seems like an interesting cartridge size, bridging the gap between .223 and say .308. And current AR's can be fairly easily converted to use the cartridge I believe.

The reason for my earlier question on whether .222 or .223 was legal for deer probably needed for explaining. I was aware it was legal in Scotland for Roe but I believe in England the size of the round isn't big enough, I've just check on the BASC site:
England and Wales
For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only- a rifle with a minimum calibre of not less than .220 inches and muzzle energy of not less than 1000 foot pounds and a bullet weight of not less than 50 grains may be used.
For all deer of any species – a minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement.
http://basc.org.uk/cop/deer-stalking/

I'm sure a 223 or 222 is more than capable, hell a .22 rf in the right spot will do the job. Doubtless a 223 or 222 can be loaded to far exceed those stated figures.

[saddler]

Laurie, your input is greatly appreciated..

There's two blokes on here actually using 6.8 SPC at the moment, through Remington 700 LTRs...

6.8 = GOOD

There's quite a few bullets out there - aside from the other SMK, the 135 that is - though UK legislation classes the majority of them in the "non-target shooting" side of things, legally...