Legality of placing a deposit without a slot on FAC

[bradaz11]

Why do you think it wouldn't be ok for a child to had the money to the cashier for the goods with age restrictions, providing the child is accommpanied by an adult and it is the adult that takes possession of the goods? E.G. A 30yr is carrying their toddler and the kid has a note in ther hand, goes to a lottery counter and says "One ticket please, go on Tommy, give the nice lady the money" would you really expect the cashier to refuse, make the person put the child down and then personally hand the money over?

because i've seen it happen, and in exactly those circumstances, in more than one occasion. and each time, it was explained in those terms

[Chapuis]

Without naming names to protect the innocent is it legal to place a deposit on a firearm if you do not have a suitable slot on your FAC?

Furthermore if a deposit is taken and the firearm is deemed "sold" should the firearms dealer not remove the firearm from their website and any other web outlet such as Gunstar or at least show the firearm is under offer?

Surely the dealer is in breach for advertising something that they have already sold?

No technically the dealer cannot sell it to you unless you already have lawful authority to possess it, disregard the argument about possession as opposed to ownership.
It's always been a bit of a grey area and BASC and several other authorities have issued warnings about this in the past. I don't know if the warning is still on the BASC website but its worth having a look. Its also one of the reasons that some police forces put an advisory condition on firearms certificates about agreeing to buy firearms before obtaining the necessary authority.

[bradaz11]

ok, another one. you own your rifles, your fac is up for renewal put police have dragged their feet and it hasn't been renewed in time (unlikely i know hah!), so you have to lodge your guns while they sort you out. you then have no fac, but you still own your guns, they just arent in your possession but you aren't magically unlawfully owning firearms are you?
so how is paying for a gun and leaving it with the RFD any different?

[Chapuis]

The offence would be for the dealer to sell you the firearm that is the difference.

[bradaz11]

ok.... did some looking... so its not a sale until you recieve the item....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

(5)Where under a contract of sale the transfer of the property in the goods is to take place at a future time or subject to some condition later to be fulfilled the contract is called an agreement to sell.

(6)An agreement to sell becomes a sale when the time elapses or the conditions are fulfilled subject to which the property in the goods is to be transferred.

[Chapuis]

If I remember correctly, and I don't swear that I do, the sale of firearms differs to normal contract law. I first became aware of this exception to the norm when Colin Greenwood writing in Guns Review many years ago raised the subject. Since then I have read it several other places including as I said in an advise note from BASC.
In fact BASC advised all never to place a deposit on a gun unless you were in a position to take immediate possession following the disaster when Litts went bust.

[Demonic69]

I put a deposit on 3 rifles before I even had my FAC, as advised by the FEO when he visited

[ovenpaa]

I used to shoot at a Pistol club that had a few non FAC members who 'owned' handguns. My understanding is they would pay all bar the last tenner and the pistol would then become a club firearm however only they would be allowed to use it and only at the club under club rules. One member had half a dozen or so very nice examples and when we spoke about it one day he said he could see no reason to ever apply for an FAC as he only ever shot at the club and would never need to take the firearms home.

[Blackstuff]

ok, another one. you own your rifles, your fac is up for renewal put police have dragged their feet and it hasn't been renewed in time (unlikely i know hah!), so you have to lodge your guns while they sort you out. you then have no fac, but you still own your guns, they just arent in your possession but you aren't magically unlawfully owning firearms are you?
so how is paying for a gun and leaving it with the RFD any different?

Exactly

And that must've been some really officious C U Next Tuesday at the lottery counter!!

[Les]

I'm sure that if there was a problem in law about a RFD 'selling' - and holding - a firearm subject to the 'buyer' obtaining the necessary permission/slot on their FAC, then it wouldn't happen ............. but it does, so obviously it isn't something to worry about.