NRA Probationary Fees, erm... what?

[bigfathairybiker]

Yup, join another club, do their own NRA course at a huge discount, get your shooters card then when you wish to shoot at Bisley you only pay about 15 quid for a day.

Mark

[Hammerstein]

Just to put my tuppence in..

As far as I can tell, the option for "finding a local club" and getting them to sign your SCC is a bit of a red herring..

Indeed, from what I have been told, it seems that from now on, before your local club (that may indeed shoot at Bisley) can issue you a SCC, they have to have their training scheme ratified by the NRA...

This means that our club essentially is scuppered when it comes to issuing SCC. From now on, the only way those that dont have SCC already to shoot is to remain under 1:1 supervision whilst shooting.

We only have a small number of us that do full bore, so getting together a training course and having it certified by the NRA as satisfactory is not worth it for us hassle and admin wise.

On a second point, the full probationary course covers all sorts that a lot of people might never be interested in. It is indeed a thorough grounding in all things that go bang, but if youre not interested in Gallery or target shot gu, should you really be forced to pay for those days if you never intend to partake?

What would be *far* more sensible IMHO would be to have certifications for each day. Youve done the day on full bore? Cool, heres your SCC for full bore. But you cant touch the other stuff..

Interested in Gallery now sir? That will be another £100 and heres the stamp on your card at the end of the day..

Am I just being daft? A single days tuition and a membership fee is far easier to swallow than the £460 for the lot....

It just all seems so very short sighted to me...

[hitchphil]

Fair enough, yes they're a business and as such must do, well, business. However, I find it completely unacceptable that for a person interested in shooting, to approach the National body with their interest to be told that before they can even join, before they can ever try the hobby* they need fork out over £500.00 I think is madness, and I can't process how some people think that's okay to ask a new comer to the sport.

That, and I will not be swayed, does not and will not encourage people to join the NRA. It has already turned away 5 people I know who would be interested in joining, including the two family members mentioned.

As has been mentioned, can't we teach each other to shoot like other clubs? Even if you charge £100 for a beginner's course is better than £1,000.00 for two people.

There must be an easier way. It's madness. This will cost them my membership, big whoop I know, and perhaps the rolling membership fees of potentially 5 people I know who are interested in joining, or at least trying the sport. You get my point.

It would be interesting to hear existing NRA members' views; would you have joined up if you had to pay upto £500 to do so?

We'll go to another club.

Yes, other hobbies' costs are perhaps on par with the NRA, but cycling or golf will still be around in 20 years, will UK shooting? Encourage the sport.

* I assume the fee is upfront.

Why do so many people on this forum knock an organisation many are not even members of? - is it because they don't know the actual cost of things perhaps? so here are some shooting economics applicable to Bisley or any club operating at it:

6 people / target is 30 quid a day each to cover range hire & to pay the marker. So for 5 days 150 is your range hire if out all day or the range is on stand by to use all day.
2 details per half day session shooting 2 sighter's & 10 at about 65p/bang so another 150 over the 5 days for ammo.
Probationary membership 78, for that you get 10million 3rd party & public liability insurance too :-)

Are you bringing your own guns? probably not? so hire at 17 or 13 pounds per session depending on type, say 3 of each is another 90 minimum. & NB the cost of a replacement barrel over approx 5krnds life works out at about 12 to 15p/bang. So 6quid a day @ 50rnds is the cost of reinstating it when worn out let alone buying it for you to use in the first place.

The NRA course can over a range of shooting disciplines: Target rifle, F-TR, Service rifle & CSR, Gallery & Target shotgun & Black Powder pistol etc etc do clubs offer all of them? .... some do, many don't. Many clubs don't even have club guns! so you going to borrow a members 3000 pound target rifle or 500 quid No 4? ...... for the price of a pint?

So we are at about 460 now then hu? Still such a bad deal?

Oh yea paid coaches, or for many their expenses at least if they donate their time that many do, & use of a heated room, free coffee, copy of the training book, & materials, use of other kit; mats, scopes etc etc. use of the zero range. Who's cleaning the guns after use? nope I think somebody is paid to do that, lest they get damaged.

Yes you can do it cheaper via a club but not much, you are still going to pay your share of range hire & ammo, in the costs above about 300 minimum, even then for many clubs that's 1 shooting day a month for 5 months, & not many clubs will do 5 weekends in a row, or do they require you to actually shoot a lot less than that to learn & demonstrate competence to safe certificate?...er I hope not! are clubs course's as well structured & effective? from some of the range practice I see ....... I am not convinced.

So do I want you well trained & safe when shooting 600yds with a 7.76 or the likes when I am at 300 down range? dam right I do. Do I want you sufficiently experienced to shoot on an MOD range with a cert card signed because I said to the clubs chair 'he/she's ok & has shown competence & demonstrated safety' damn right we do because if we don't the MOD can hot foot in, make all sorts of accusations about safety (we share the danger area with Camp Pirbright) & they with officialdom & the power they have can decimate a club or the sport.

It is an expensive sport to buy into, but much cheaper to run there after, or would you like it all subsidised by the current membership? there is some merit to that as a debate but I doubt they will approve. Possibly the costs / value hasn't been that well explained till now? Are you swayed?, if not then possibly shooting isn't for you? Try scuba lots & lots more expense.

And still the NRA's courses are full, yep that tells me something too & long may that continue.

Ps I don't do probationary training with the NRA, but do with our club & that's what it costs & how long it takes, before I sign to say your cool to go out & play alone.

Cost of getting a full driving licence?

NRA RCO & Club Coach.
Secretary of a club.

[Outsider]

Perhaps the clubs around the country should put some money aside each year, then everyone dissatisfied with the NRA's absolutely shockingly poor treatment of people interested in shooting and owning firearms pulls their membership. NRA goes bankrupt, everyone steps forward with the funds and buys up Bisley before the housing developers can get it and forms a new NRA, one that isn't a complete embarrassment.

[hitchphil]

Perhaps the clubs around the country should put some money aside each year, then everyone dissatisfied with the NRA's absolutely shockingly poor treatment of people interested in shooting and owning firearms pulls their membership. NRA goes bankrupt, everyone steps forward with the funds and buys up Bisley before the housing developers can get it and forms a new NRA, one that isn't a complete embarrassment.

Another informed member? slagging of the NRA hu? helpful ............... not .

[Chuck]

Cost of getting a full driving licence?

Paid for lesson by lesson in my day and as advocated by Hammerstein - much easier.

One would think at £460.00 the NRA might look at doing what Health clubs do and have the fees (for those that want to) paid in instalments. Like a Gym membership, the shooter signs an instalment (credit) agreement, NRA gets paid upfront and the shooter pays month by month?

Just a thought

[Mike357]

And shooters are a cohesive bunch who will rally together and spend their saved funds on buying Bisley, squabble and argue over forming a management committee, will have to start with no working capital as creditors will have taken it all. Do you really think that would ever work? Just like they all rallied together after Hungerford and Dunblane.

As has been said, it's an expensive sport but there is more than one route into it. Join another club, and do it that way.

It's like the thread on LBPs, if they are too dear don't by one. By a cheaper one and stop moaning about it.

[hitchphil]

Cost of getting a full driving licence?

Paid for lesson by lesson in my day and as advocated by Hammerstein - much easier.

One would think at £460.00 the NRA might look at doing what Health clubs do and have the fees (for those that want to) paid in instalments. Like a Gym membership, the shooter signs an instalment (credit) agreement, NRA gets paid upfront and the shooter pays month by month?

Just a thought

Agree .... That would work, shall we suggest it? as long as the NRA don't get people signing up then not bothering to show as can happen & leaving them with having to pay markers to not mark etc, am sure that would work well. Not sure if NRA can do credit terms? but am sure there are people who know about that better than me :-)

The cost of driving is 50 quid licence, U 21 a minimum grand insurance on bank o dads car! then 5 lessons 50 quid then about 20-40 a lesson after, then a test fee, 10-20 lessons to pass - & in the back of my mind is .... is a car more or less dangerous than a rifle in the hands of an inexperienced person? & do I agree with fast track 'crash' courses?... excuse the pun! vs taking some time to learn to shoot, find a style / discipline that one likes, then learn to shoot that safely? in a supporting club environment. Think I feel safer on the range with the latter.........?

[tackb]

I was a member of the NRA , not any more , I wobble sometimes and consider joining again but they always seem to do something monumentally arrogant that make the 'old' NRA shine through so my money stays in my pocket ! (Vote with your cash)

It's sad but for every modern thinking broad minded supporter of all shooting sports in the NRA there seems to be a handful of set in there ways stuffy old duffers ? Just my opinion obviously......

[Mezzer]

Perhaps the clubs around the country should put some money aside each year, then everyone dissatisfied with the NRA's absolutely shockingly poor treatment of people interested in shooting and owning firearms pulls their membership. NRA goes bankrupt, everyone steps forward with the funds and buys up Bisley before the housing developers can get it and forms a new NRA, one that isn't a complete embarrassment.

Another informed member? slagging of the NRA hu? helpful ............... not .

On the contrary ... at least he's thinking outside the box!

460 quid is a lot of cash to some people and there is little doubt that they would get better value from a local club which has a certified shooter competence programme in place as part of the probation process. Club firearms / ammo should be available for use and hopefully, not at the prices you quoted (although I have no doubt that the figures were correct). All that's missing from the local club scene is 'the Bisley Experience' and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather spend the money saved on ammo. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-NRA, but rather pro-local clubs.

Mezzer