Dress impressions

[TattooedGun]

I do find some of the "military attitude" amusing.
Just because you've served for the minimum time does not make you a veteran who can then spend the rest of your life talking down to us civvies because we haven't "protected our country". Very few squaddies since WW2 have ever actually protected our country, they've protected the vested interests of politicians, corporations, drug barons, oil magnates and dictators. I'm not saying there aren't heroes and some amazing blokes, I have a lot of friends and colleagues who have been all over the world protecting the weak or assisting those who do, but enlisting doesn't give you the automatic right to rank yourself with the elite.

There are discussions about only allowing the military to use MTP, but as you don't have to be front-line, gun-toting to wear MTP should it also be restricted to only those in active combat roles?

I agree that a bunch of blokes in full operator setup may give the wrong impression, but I don't think a jacket, trousers and boots does. I've never walked onto a paintball field and thought it was a military operation, and some of those guys go nuts!
Maybe just ban cameras as they're clearly a more dangerous weapon.

Yup, agree with what you're saying here. There was some comments on the FB post by some guy from the Army Target Team, which come across just like you are saying above. While I agree with insignia, rank badges etc should absolutely not be worn by those not entitled to do so; the attitude that only 'the professionals' should wear camo makes him sound like an elitist . That attitude stinks as much as those of the great unwashed

Actually that guy came across saying that EVEN the military are strongly advised not to wear Military issue garments whilst doing a Civilian sport.

The only part he got a little defensive over the uniform was pointing out that there are those people who always take it too far and wear insignias that they haven't earned on their all over camo "wannabe soldier" get-ups. and I can't say I blame him.

As a member of the Army Target Rifle Team and a serving member of HM forces, I and the rest of the team are under strict instructions not to wear military uniform of any sort while shooting in what is a civilian sport. The discipline of Civilian Service Rifle is just that: a civilian discipline the same as TR and so those taking part should be well advised to wear non military kit. It is especially apparent to those of us in the Army that some members of the CSR community have adopted the very latest MTP camouflage gear, some of which is commensurate in cost with some of the better makes of civilian outdoor protective gear. The fact that CSR shooters wish to pay a premium for this kit as opposed to buying perfectly adequate (and significantly cheaper) surplus old style UK DPM clothing suggests to us that the effect that those people want to achieve is to appear as, if not to actually impersonate, soldiers.

CSR is a fantastic discipline that allows those who do it to indulge in a great test of marksmanship under mental and physical pressure. It is not a quasi-military activity to allow people to indulge in personal fantasy , pretending to be something they are palpably not. What really offends me and the rest of the Army TR Team is when you witness combat jackets, adorned with tactical recognition flashes and other insignia that the wearer has clearly never qualified to wear, including US style 'Taliban Hunting Club' patches that those of us that have actually served in Afghanistan find particularly pathetic and laughable.

I look forward to seeing much less camouflage clothing on the ranges in future. Leave that to professional members of the Armed Forces and concentrate on what is an otherwise worthy and popular sport.

[Demonic69]

Saying that, I've just bought myself a set of Helikon ECWCS outer garments (think I'm on waterproof set number 5 or something now). Jacket in green, trousers in black.

Were they £50 for the set though?
That's the one sore point for many I think. Even the current issues surpluss can be as cheap as £30 for a jacket, £20 for the trousers. I struggle to find quality gear at those kinds of prices. Not that I own any "Military" gear at all, I tend to wear an old softshell jacket and some Asda combats in blue or puddle-brown/green DPM. I don't shoot many practical comps in bad weather though and I'm very far from nesh, otherwise I might be tempted

[Demonic69]

The only part he got a little defensive over the uniform was pointing out that there are those people who always take it too far and wear insignias that they haven't earned on their all over camo "wannabe soldier" get-ups. and I can't say I blame him.

I agree with that too and it should be a matter of legal restriction. Same goes for ex-servicemen though, unless at a function or parade they shouldn't be toting insignia from the good old days.

[techguy]

Saying that, I've just bought myself a set of Helikon ECWCS outer garments (think I'm on waterproof set number 5 or something now). Jacket in green, trousers in black.

Were they £50 for the set though?
That's the one sore point for many I think. Even the current issues surpluss can be as cheap as £30 for a jacket, £20 for the trousers. I struggle to find quality gear at those kinds of prices. Not that I own any "Military" gear at all, I tend to wear an old softshell jacket and some Asda combats in blue or puddle-brown/green DPM. I don't shoot many practical comps in bad weather though and I'm very far from nesh, otherwise I might be tempted

No, more like £140 for the set.

[TattooedGun]

Saying that, I've just bought myself a set of Helikon ECWCS outer garments (think I'm on waterproof set number 5 or something now). Jacket in green, trousers in black.

Were they £50 for the set though?
That's the one sore point for many I think. Even the current issues surpluss can be as cheap as £30 for a jacket, £20 for the trousers. I struggle to find quality gear at those kinds of prices. Not that I own any "Military" gear at all, I tend to wear an old softshell jacket and some Asda combats in blue or puddle-brown/green DPM. I don't shoot many practical comps in bad weather though and I'm very far from nesh, otherwise I might be tempted

Something that Christel posted earlier in this thread, if I recall correctly, keeps springing to mind.

Duffeyeddoyle uttered the magic words that day when I got soaked on one shoulder wearing my surplus Eastern European army jacket and complained about it.

"It is surplus for a reason"

If you're getting CURRENT ISSUE as "surplus", you have to wonder why it is surplus. Everyone keeps harping on about low price and the practicality of it. If it's so practical and stands up to the abuse, then why has it been surplused...? Surely the army only gets rid of current issue gear if it is not performing to the standard required, through wear or through inferior quality issues...?

Is it a false economy...?

[Blu]

Reading some of the comments I would like to pose a question, what if some were to turn up in full Mossy Oak camo? Most of my hunting is done during the winter months, around here it starts getting cold middle to the end of October so it's time to keep warm. When I am out on the range during the cold weather and getting ready for hunting I like to wear the clothes I will be wearing for hunting, that is a mild/cold weather parka and gortex pants both in Mossy Oak and waterproof.

So we are talking about camo gear here, who would consider Mossy Oak too military looking? Lets keep in mind here that be it Mossy Oak or milsurp camo to the average person, camo is camo if we are to believe what the FB page says. Way I see it, sportsmen in the UK have bigger problems than this issue. This bullshit is exactly that, bullshit. The folks who go for their walks in and around Bisley are more than likely locals and are used to seeing sportsmen in all types of gear and probably don't bat an eyelid and just smile and shake their heads at the walts. So unless you have folks coming from far and wide just to wander around Bisley and watch you all shoot the whole public perception thing is nonsense.

This is nothing more than a few anal retentive assholes with a rod up their ass to give them some backbone whining about something they personally don't like and have whined to the right chums in order for it to reach Mister Mercers ears. With the ever mounting rules and regulations you folks in the UK have imposed on your shooting, $h1t such as this would be the least of your worries I'd have thought.

[Demonic69]

That's a good point. Some of the Surplus is even "Unissued". Unless the manufacturers have cottoned onto a damn good source of income. Not a bad idea really if it helps lower costs for the military.

[TattooedGun]

So we are talking about camo gear here, who would consider Mossy Oak too military looking? Lets keep in mind here that be it Mossy Oak or milsurp camo to the average person, camo is camo if we are to believe what the FB page says. Way I see it, sportsmen in the UK have bigger problems than this issue. This bullshit is exactly that, bullshit. The folks who go for their walks in and around Bisley are more than likely locals and are used to seeing sportsmen in all types of gear and probably don't bat an eyelid and just smile and shake their heads at the walts. So unless you have folks coming from far and wide just to wander around Bisley and watch you all shoot the whole public perception thing is nonsense.

I don't really think that real tree camo portrays the same type of "wannabe soldier" aspect as wearing military camouflage, which is the issue here.

And it's less people walking around Bisley, as you rightly say, people who live down there are used to it as it's commonplace. However, when the National Governing body is posting pictures themselves of the disciplines being shot, and posts pictures of people shooting in full camo gear, looking like they're fulfilling their action fantasies on the weekend, regardless of discipline being shot, it does, undeniably paint a picture to the uninitiated about the type of people who partake in the sport.

Regardless of practicalities, all they see is the picture without context. Left to draw their own parallels with the popular media presentation that "all guns are bad".

[Blu]

Surplus can mean it has been worn a few times and then exchanged for a different size for all manner of reasons. Once it's been worn it is very seldom re-issued and therefore becomes surplus to unit requirements.

[TattooedGun]

Surplus can mean it has been worn a few times and then exchanged for a different size for all manner of reasons. Once it's been worn it is very seldom re-issued and therefore becomes surplus to unit requirements.

It could mean that, I somehow doubt that is the biggest reason to surplus issued gear though...

... it also occurs to me that the majority of our conflicts in the past 20 years have been in DRY, Desert conditions... I can't believe that this creates that much surplus of waterproof clothing... :/