FAC/RFD in for change of address; legal status in meantime?

[Rearlugs]

I moved house in April.

Being a good boy, I duly returned my FAC, SGC & RFD certificates to the Police and notified them of the permanent change of address. I retain copies/scans of the certificates. This is the procedure laid down on the Police website.

Because of the move, I also took the precaution of placing all of my firearms and ammunition into temporary storage with another RFD. Consequently, I have nothing licensable in my possession at the moment.

FEO has visited the new premises, and is happy with the security arrangements being implemented. However, "the person with the file" is now on leave for a couple of weeks, so my amended certs cannot be re-issued until well into July.

Unfortunately, I have a shooting comp this weekend, plus my RFD mate has an inspection due and would quite like to be rid of my stuff, which is blocking access to his stuff, etc. Hence I'd quite like to pick up some or all of my firearms & ammo, but would have to do so on the basis of my copies of my old certificates. I don't know if this is legal, or if there is a different situation for FAC/SGC vs. RFD items.

- I was under the impression that - for FAC/SGC at least - you could not be in possession of firearms/ammo unless also in possession of the original certificates; hence the supposed requirement for Police to issue temp certificates (although most forces seem to ignore this!).

- The RFD aspect i am also very unclear about - as its of course common Trade practice for RFDs to bimble about "in possession" whilst bearing only copies of the RFD anyway.

- Of course if I hadn't sensibly and voluntarily placed my stuff into 3rd party storage, I'd still be in possession anyway!


Has anyone been in this position, or know what the precise legal status is? I will of course give the licensing department a call anyway, but as you know one police force may give one opinion in a grey area, whilst another may see it differently. I don't want to get 5 years detention on the basis of some clerk's assurances!

[dromia]

GTA would be worth a call if you are a member.

[legs748]

Check the basc website legal pages. Although the police guidance says send in your certificates there is no legal requirement to do this, you must only notify them of change of address. I know it doesn't help your predicament at the moment but it would have avoided your situation, if you are a basc member I would say give their legal dept a call, I have heard they are very helpful.

[Chapuis]

I can't understand why you returned your SGC or FAC and not simply informed them of a change of address. Why would the police issue temporary certificates if you have existing certificates in existence.
The RFD is an entirely different matter though as I believe the premises have to be approved first before a registration can be altered to allow trading from the new address but as I have never held a RFD myself I can only go on what I have read in the guidance to police document. Have you been trading for any length of time rearlugs and are you a member of the GTA?

[Rearlugs]

I can't understand why you returned your SGC or FAC and not simply informed them of a change of address. Why would the police issue temporary certificates if you have existing certificates in existence.
The RFD is an entirely different matter though as I believe the premises have to be approved first before a registration can be altered to allow trading from the new address but as I have never held a RFD myself I can only go on what I have read in the guidance to police document. Have you been trading for any length of time rearlugs and are you a member of the GTA?

Well, in the general stress and activity of moving house, I made the mistake of reading the explicit instruction on the Police website and complying with the procedure. It doesn't normally occur to me to mount a legal challenge over what seemed to be a routine administrative process!

Given that FAC/SGC (and RFD) are granted subject to suitable firearm storage security being checked and signed off by an FEO, it also seemed reasonable that this would be necessary for a new house. Indeed the FEO was duly assigned to visit and check the facilities.

The "Temporary Certificate" is a reference to the procedure that is supposed to happen when you do have to return your FAC - i.e. for renewal, amendment or variation. You have to hold the original certificate to be in possession of your firearms, hence technically you are in breach every time you send the FAC off. Ergo in theory the Police are supposed to issue a temporary certificate to maintain cover. Some forces do (on demand), others do not.

I think the "change of permanent address" procedure is in the same legal grey area as returning your FAC for amendment; thats why I wondered if anyone had had reason to establish the letter of the Law.

[Chapuis]

No one mentioned mounting a legal challenge or for that matter getting upetty about it. Have you read what it says in the guidance and on the BASC website about change of address? The situation as regards temporary certificates is that they cannot be issued while a current valid certificate is in existence regardless of whether the actual document is in your possession or in their possession. Once again I believe that a note to this effect on their website. Temporary certificates are only issued when there is a delay in renewing or granting certificates. I have a few of them in the past and like you say some police forces were very reluctant to issue them because they have to explain in their annual audit to HMIC why it was necessary to issue them.

[Sim G]

You have certificates in force. It causes an issue if you attempt to purchase or transfer without the actual possession of the certs, but that's it. Carry on as you would do.

If I lodged my guns or didn't go shooting every time my certificates were in for variation or the likes, I'd never get to pull a trigger! My ticket spends more time with the police than with me!

Stopped by a constable? Just ensure you have some form of photo ID and he can carry out a PNC check with confidence you are who you say you are, and the result will show valid certificates.