Keeping the sport going

[Demonic69]

But you're not restricted to open days if you sign up as a probationer, generally, are you?

I feel that shooting is kinda unseen in the UK. Many people seem to think that all you can shoot in the UK (as a civilian) are shotguns. More exposure of some of the more action-oriented shooting might help popularise it, but on the other hand it may also attract media scare-stories, so I'm in two minds about the idea...

I thought you were unless you already had your FAC? I certainly was at my club and I thought the guidance said the same but I may be wrong.

I don't read my own signature!

[FencepostError]

But you're not restricted to open days if you sign up as a probationer, generally, are you?

I feel that shooting is kinda unseen in the UK. Many people seem to think that all you can shoot in the UK (as a civilian) are shotguns. More exposure of some of the more action-oriented shooting might help popularise it, but on the other hand it may also attract media scare-stories, so I'm in two minds about the idea...

I thought you were unless you already had your FAC? I certainly was at my club and I thought the guidance said the same but I may be wrong.

Well, I'm a non-FAC-holding probationer, and I'm not - at my club I can shoot whenever the range is open (under supervision, of course) :-) In fact, at my club I don't think I'd be able to satisfy the minimum required attendance for a probationer if I only attended on open/guest days.

[Jenks]

I think the cost of full bore shooting must put a lot of people off. I am doing less shooting these days, I just can't justify the expense.(newly retired and discovering the joys of living on a much reduced income) My current FAC runs to 2017 I don't think I will be renewing it. If I do it will only be for .22 Rimfire. The old boy (80) I was shooting alongside at my last club meeting said that this will be his last year. He told me that he had just bought 200 7.62x55mm cartridges cost him 80p a round. Have to say though I can't bear the thought of having to let my beautiful Enfields .303s go.

Jenks

[Thorney]

Why is ammunition so expensive? .22 is the only round that seems affordable these days? I certainly shoot .22 a lot more than .223 and going out and shooting 200 rounds is affordable, 200 rounds of .225 and I'm down £100.

[ovenpaa]

I was talking to a club secretary about new shooters recently and he did say there was a worrying minority who would turn up for every shoot during the probation period, apply for an FAC, get it and then fall off the face of the earth only to be seen the bare minimum of times. We both agreed it was important to find out what had changed, were they shooting at another range such as Bisley or work commitments or finances or something else.

At the other end of the scale someone we know went through the probationary process at a local club, during the process everyone bent over backwards to help and were friendly and accommodating. Eventually the probation period was served, tests passed and they became a full member. He commented on just how strange it was to walk into the club and be ignored, like a fledgling kicked out of the nest. He went on to gain an FAC and these days shoots the occasional rabbit with a rimfire and has no further involvement with the club.

I know people are going to disagree and say 'never at my club' however I do feel some clubs greet the prospect of new membership with something approaching open hostility and I do wonder if this why some people choose to head out to places like the NSC as opposed to shooting at the local club. Or maybe it is because they need more than the club can offer.

On a plus side I know of three people who have just joined our club purely for the long distance side of things and we are seeing new members in other disciplines.

[Thorney]

I think there are three parts, cost of ammunition, the process of getting an fac and then afterwards. I'm genuinely interested why full bore is so expensive in the uk when overseas its a lot cheaper? As for the process, I thunk its right that to get an fac is a drawn out, time consuming process. The ability to own and control a firearm is one of commitment IMO and that needs to be tested in the process to obtain one (separate from requirements such as background, criminal record, mental illness etc) to ensure it's not something someone can get on a whim. Mine took a year, a long time but worth it for me as it was important to me and as such I treat my right to own a firearm as a privilege not to be taken for granted. The probationary side is part of that process so people commit, ie they 'have' to go to get the ticket but once they have it shooing becomes the hobby so if people are not attending to shoot then either perhaps their desire to own a firearm lies elsewhere than attending a club.

The thing I've found from shooters is that they are all so polarised, I've met target shooters who at the mere mention that I shoot practical shotgun turn almost hostile and shotgunners who think .22 is a kids gun - must be hard for a club to maintain and open and friendly atmosphere if such prejudices are evident? I'm not blaming the clubs but if our sport is to grow (or even stop stagnating) then at atmosphere of inclusion is important. The final aspect is the promotion of our sport to non shooters, we don't, we are all so scared of losing the right to shoot either by overly officious police activity or legislation we all hide what we do with the result that we all look even more unsavoury in the eyes of people who don't understand gun ownership above what they see in action movies. What different between target shooting and archery? Same process, launching a projectile from a to b, but tell a kids mum you like archery you're a wholesome human being, tell the same mum that you shoot rifles and they cancel playmates with your kids as you might as well be a paedophile, until that attitude changes, and it can only change by education and exposure then our sport will always be minor and unsupported.

[dromia]

Ammunition need not be expensive if you reload and use cast boolits, that is what I do.

The only cost is the powder and primers along with your time and a little bit of electricity or gas.

There is the expense of a mould but that can be as little as £30 and will give you 10's if not 100's of thousands of boolits if looked after.

Powder is cheaper too for example out to 100 yrds less than 10 gns of fast pistol powder, out to 300 around 16 gns of slow pistol powder and for out to 600 yrds 25 or so gns of a fast rifle powder, check published data for exact loads and work up in your firearm. Cheap, accurate, easy on you and your rifles and none of that nasty copper fouling to worry about.

My 310 cadet ammunition works out at just under 5p around for powder and primer, cheaper than 22.

I shoot around 200 rounds of 310 a week at 25 yrds and at least 100 rounds of 303, 7mm, 30-06 etc a week out to 100yrds and another couple of hundred rounds a month out to 600. I couldn't shoot that much if I was using jacketed.

[Thorney]

Understood on reloading but for most its a pita. For a start there is time, something most of us are shot of, secondly it's the equipment, cost of it, where to put it and storage of it. Thirdly the storage of the primers, powder, all needs to be stored like a gun so that's more space etc. I'm not anti reloading, far from it I will learn at some point but it's not for everyone so an effective supply of ammunition is importants.

[ovenpaa]

Unity of shooters is a huge issue in some areas and between some disciplines, my recent Marlin 1894 acquisition being a perfect example. A couple of people immediately asked why on earth I would want such a thing and even if I was giving up 'proper shooting.' Only one F Class shooter I know 'admitted' to owning one, he also went on to tell me just how much fun it was to shoot with. The 'fun to shoot with' is the key point here, be it competition or club shooting I would like to think we shoot because we enjoy the sport, enjoy the challenge, the reloading the refining and the development of our skills.

My Father told me once about how he used to place two Swan Vesta matches side by side with a slight gap between and then try and put a .22 short between the two to ignite them. I remember spending many hours trying to replicate this task with an air rifle in the back garden when I was a kid. He mostly shot a .410 for Rabbits, I shoot at 1000/1200 yards yet the accurate shooting was the common ground. He is my Father so we have a lot of common ground however to me it reinforces the point that we are all shooters young and old and we need to be more united.

I am growing increasing tired of the thinly disguised contempt for some sectors of the shooting community, we need to be a community and remember that a .22LR is not a kids gun, a shotgun is not just for farmers, people who shoot long distance 'scoped rifles are not wanabee assassins and that there are other ways to shoot than with a sling.

..and no this is not aimed at anyone or any discipline in particular.

[dromia]

I can see how it isn't for some but nearly all of our new starts actually move onto reloading when they get fullbore rifles, I suppose that will have something to do with all of our club full bore shooters being reloaders so that is all part and parcel of the learning experience for them as new shooters.

At the end of the day if we want to shoot we will have to fund it somehow and for many of us, in fact for most of the many shooters I know hand loading and cast bullets is the only way they can afford it.

Time is a factor indeed but people are usually cash rich/time poor, or time rich/cash poor. There is set up expense but that doesn't need to cost a lot especially if you look for second hand and you can easily recoup that if you shoot a hundred rounds or so a week.

As to time, with a two cavity mould I can easily cast 200 boolits an hour so for 100 rounds a week shooting that is two hours a month, reload with fire formed cases on a classic cast turret press (£100 new) easily 100 rounds an hour so that is four hours a month for 100 rounds a week, throw in another hour for case cleaning, lubing, clean up etc and 400 rounds a month will take you 7 hours a month not long if you give a up few TV programmes for instance.

So for new people the option of handloading and cast boolits can some times be the only way they can afford to stay in shooting.