Rotten markers, what's to be done?

[Maggot]

Hi folks,

It cannot have gone un noticed over the past few months that some markers at the NSC are not really holding a convincing argument along the lines of ”they deserve whatever pay they are getting”.

One or two are ruining it for the rest, and if I was a marker, I would want them gone as much as we do. I take the point that if they got shot of all the markers we complained about, there would be none left, but it also follows that some are best got rid of regardless.

The last time I complained (after the Phoenix) the lass in the range office turned the tables on us along the lines that they can tell them until they are blue in the face, but they are kids and it just goes in one ear and out the other.

She said that they (range office staff) just feel embarrassed every time we complain which is understandable, but what suggestions would we have to improve things?....I bit my lip tesnews

I have several workable solutions involving grooming, something in 40mm, mortars, a remote tazer, or the rack.....but joking aside, what constructive, workable, and legal ideas does the collective have?

I get that encouragement is good, and I am in no way anti marker. Been there, done that, and it was me that was standing up for them in last year’s open day when coaches were being impatient and a little voice on the radio said “seriously, we really are whacked out down here” so I started closing targets down so they could rest or double up for a while (It was late in the day anyway and there had been no stop for lunch).

Quite why they thought a visit by various NRA dignitaries would solve the issue still makes me wonder....at work we call it “returning to the scene of the crime”

So I ask you, learned, intelligent, brethren (cos many brains is better than a half), what ideas do you have?

I will present the lot to the range office as suggested by us, and will put the same post on the airgun BBS. If anyone else fancies passing it onto other forums, great.

Some thoughts already mentioned (Cheers Gillian et al)

We would like to see them with zap numbers (so we can get the correct blood group for when we...no...no....them damned voices again) so that we can hold each other accountable. It also means they will not be able to hide behind anonymity. This is a 2 way street because when complimented in the range office, they know who we mean.

We would like them to appreciate how much a shoot costs us. I see that may well alienate them even more as a lot of them are kids, but then most of us are not exactly Donald bleeding trump either. In light of recent silliness screwing up our shoots, they need to know.

We would like to see the tables turned with the NRA running them a shoot, and volunteers from amongst us marking to a standard we would expect to see, look and learn.

Are they trained properly? We would like to see that done.

We would like the NRA to address the “cant reach” problem, and maintain and balance the target frames as well as can possibly be done to make the lesser able markers lives easier. Personally I would volunteer to help partake in said maintenance....would you?

We would like to see them get a bonus for good work, as well as an “X” strikes and you are out...strikes to be quantified. They handed out enough NRA vouchers to us last year...perhaps a voucher for Jenny's or a small cash bonus for best marker(s) of the month. Most of them are kids not slaves, make them feel appreciated.

We would like the NRA to recognise what an asset a good marker is rather than just bemoaning the crap ones, and how a shoot is totally Donald ducked by a sullen or lazy little s*** who wants the money for no effort....and manage their assets accordingly.

Because if they don’t, they wont have much of a national shooting centre left.

Discuss.

Personally, I would like to not feel I have to boycott all NRA shoots because they cant get the ruddy targets marked correctly or the right targets presented.

We pay enough, is this too much to ask? emrolleyes

Have a great weekend, and if you are shooting I hope it stays dry for you

[Sim G]

Allocate each marker a number. Mark their performance accordingly at the end of each shoot. Have a performance league where the markers are paid according to their performance. Make the pay scales something that each wish to attain. Good markers will work harder, the bad ones will improve or move on..

[Mr_Logic]

yes, I think performance-related pay is the way to go, in some form or other. I think a bit more carrot is likely to make a difference.

The only other thing is a non-marking supervisor down there. I've seen, while marking on century, you get little gobshites trying it on with all the girls down there, distracting both themselves and the girl(s) in question - many of whom would be terrific markers were it not for the annoying little plebs making a nuisance of themselves.

Beyond that, realistically there is not much to be done - the use of proper NI and pay, rather than cash in hand, has seen to it that a lot of the best ones will never be back, and also that they get poached by clubs, who DO pay cash in hand - at least I assume this has happened.

[artiglio]

As with most things, if you want something better you need to pay more. When a group of us shoot at bisley, we have numbers for a few good markers and arrange it ourselves, we also pay more than the range office do. And get excellent marking in return, between four or so of us well worth it.
For comps when larger numbers are needed then you have to go deeper into barrel. To improve quality all round it's gonna cost more.

[kennyc]

as far as the Stickledown target frames are concerned, I have heard it mentioned that they are too tall for some of the markers to pull down, would it be feasible to fit rope leashes to the frames to allow the downward pull to be started without someone having to jump and swing? the weight of the frames is always going to be a problem, however, are they correctly counterweighted? I have never been to the butts at Stikledown, however i have been to and used the frames at Century, theres lots of grease everywhere, but is it ever cleaned and replaced? old grease is almost as bad as no grease!

[Gaz]

As I understand it there already is a non-marking supervisor down the butts. The real question is whether the little gobsh*tes actually listen to the super ... Formal training is also provided, unpaid, and lasts half a day. It's unskilled labour at the end of the day.

Performance related pay would be a good idea. Currently bog-standard marking (without super pay) pays £7/hr and the NRA still can't raise enough markers to cover busy periods. I'm fairly sure something like this already operates during the Imperial, where 'x' compliments sent in one day results in some sort of reward. Of course, that's with a butt officer for each butt who has the time to note that down, which isn't the case outside of major competitions.

I wonder what their Ts and Cs of employment are like. Is there a probationary period where their contracts can be terminated if they persistently bugger around? If so, how long is it - and is that provision used? How much advertising does the NRA do for quality markers?

[JSHarris]

on the last occasion i booked a marker , which is a rare occurence, I was pleased with the service provided. So much so i left a tip for them. While i agree that they should provide a good service irrespective of tips/bonuses how many of you have actually got on teh radio at the end of the detail and said thank you, good job or other praise?

Encouragement helps a lot. Explain what you want in simple terms, most dont shoot and very very few would have your experience and none will know what it is you want unless you tell them- so communicate clearly to them

Complaints to the range office need to be quantified, i.e marker did now know what a "group size was" helps the staff resolve future issues far more then "marker was crap".

ultimately in comes down to cost, if you want a premium service then you probably have to pay for it in some way.

Stickledown frames- even at 6'2" i need to reach up for them, at over 220lbs and reasonably fit they are not easy to operate though i can operate them one handed. Bear in mind that a skinny 17 year old may struggle a bit when you next criticise them for being slow!

[Mr_Logic]

The issue is not the speed of target movement, it's the actual marking once it's down. I've had it before where they mark a shot and nobody fired - nobody anywhere near, either - no shot was sent! Their patching and diligence is often an issue and it's that, not the speed of pulling targets, which will annoy me. I have every sympathy for some of them - some of the girls are tiny, being asked to do that work for a half or full day is a big ask.

[Egg on Leggs1]

Our club got around this problem with the bone idle rich kids by going during the week when you always see to get the smart one's with a work ethic, respect and manners.

[Mezzer]

3 years ago when I attended the RCO's course at Bisley we were using the Century range for the practical element of the training. When my colleague and I were taking our turn at marking in the butts, there was a young lass working next to us as a marker. She was fairly slight in physique and she was working like a Trojan.
The state of the frames and raising/lowering apparatus was an absolute disgrace and there was grease everywhere. On top of this, the gallery itself under the mantle and the apparatus pits were full of rubbish and other crap. Trip hazards were everywhere and this, coupled with the state of the equipment itself hardly makes for a pleasant (or safe) working environment. It will only take a cable to jump a pulley and for someone to loose a finger before a big compensation claim lands on the NRA's desk. The $64 question is .... do we have to wait for that to happen before something gets done?
Small wonder then that it is difficult to attract 'the right sort of people' to mark. Counterweights, regular maintenance and a decent cleanup would go a long way to alleviate these problems.

I would hope that things have improved since that time but if not, we only have ourselves (via the NRA) to blame.

Mezzer