Owning a Bisley caravan

[greenshoots]

Er they were going to but as some of Bisley is an SSSI and comes under two different councils it wasn't as easy as you would think.


so they have caravans instead

greenshoots

[hitchphil]

"nice Travelodge" = oxymoron.

Ha quite agree - corporate lowest common denominator service dump! & DeVere is a ponced up name for the same, the one in Bolton Rebock is awful: 26" tube TVs, no GB beer, tarted up fast food, sky yawn TV, & not a British employee in the place (of any race or nation).

I suspect the NSRA will hand the site over for an long full operating lease with no profit share, for a fixed short term get them out of the red one off fee. In 10 years somebody will have to crank the handle again.

[Mike Jenvey]

Extract from NRA AGM Minutes, my bold - you also need to read some of the questions/answers.

Direct link to Minutes - http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/minu ... GM2014.pdf

Chief Executive:

Effectively what we are trying to do, what we will do, is provide 26 serviced pitches; there were 36 caravans on SAS/Site 4. It’s taken an inordinate amount of time to relocate all 36, it’s taken us far longer and has been much harder than we expected.

We are shortly to start work on site. We will probably hold those works back so we are not bashing and crashing over the meeting, which we think will be unwelcome.

Those 26 pitches will be serviced with mains water, bolt tank gas, drainage, electricity and high capacity broadband. And attractive units they will be. They will be offered up on 20 year leases, not annual licenses with 5 year break clauses, with breaks at 5, 10 and 15.
The budget cost for those developments, each pitch, is somewhere in the region of between £8,000 and £10,000. We are looking to recover that cost, or 65% or so of those costs through a combination of commission on sales of new caravans because those pitches will be restricted to new caravans, and a fee payable for the 20 year lease.

That is our plan. I have two primary fears with this development; one, nobody will take it up and two, we will be overrun with people wanting to take it up. As at this moment in time, I’m pretty confident that a dozen or so will go very quickly. It remains to be seen how successful we are.

I think ultimately, this actually is a major change for camp. It’s a major change, instead of trying to persuade people to invest in decent caravans with very poor or little facilities, we are offering people the certainty of 20 years, as it were, to enjoy the facilities that are afforded on their own caravan that will always be theirs.

So it’s very much a new venture. We are being fiercely and vigorously criticised about what people think we are doing. Two demonstration units will be arriving on the 4th or 5th July and the full marketing packs will be rolling out then.

The people who have been evicted brutally from SAS and Site 4 will be given first opportunity for the remaining 26 units and after a period, of about a month or so, we will open up to the wider membership.

There is absolutely no guarantee of success of this venture, but I am fairly of the opinion that it is absolutely the right way forward.

I do not recall any questionnaire/survey that asked for input from members about serviced pitches or the type of utilities that might be beneficial. This is a weakness in communication.

Not an accurate statistical poll, but a lot of members seem to think that connection of mains electricity would be ideal, other services not required. Had that been a majority view on any survey, it certainly would have been a cheaper installation option - & one that could be introduced at all 'van sites, not just a level site near the central mains connection location.

As far as I remember from the initial letter, there was absolutely NO mention of specific requirement for approved 'vans, nor the planned costs. This is a weakness in communication.

From the questions asked at the AGM (& direct feedback from some Site 4 occupants), the moving of 'vans to alternate sites seemed to be very haphazard. This is a weakness in planning.

Surprise, surprise, it took much longer to move the existing vans - & now, nothing will be done over the meeting = those occupants could have had a longer period on their existing site. This is a weakness in planning.

I believe that a large number of 'vans (20??) were scrapped = extra cost to the owners.

Despite several direct requests to Mercer, I have not been sent any details relating to any initial business plan. Was there such a document?

Costings - assuming maximum budget costs, as this is the safest accounting action!

26 serviced pitches @ £10K each = £260K. Up to 65% of costs required to be recouped (if over that amount)??

Basic maths - assume lease of £10k - 26 pitches x £10k = £260k. Assume caravans will cost £30k, so £3k per 'van to NRA - 26 x £3k = £78k + £260k = £338k. If that is only 65% of capital costs....

That leaves 35% capital cost = £182k - where the heck is that coming from?? That is a £520k project!! For 26 pitches, at an extra £1k per annual extra rent (over the approximate norm of £1000), that is a minimum 7 year pay back. However, does the NRA have £182k up front to bank roll this? This is, of course, assuming that the take-up on these Champagne Charlie sites is 100%........

Same calculations for 'vans at £25k & £7k lease = £247K (65%), £380k total, £133K payback (5 yrs).

Same calculation for 'vans at £15K & £5K lease = £169K = too little dosh initially?

This excludes annual utilities bills - unknown amount but perhaps £250-£300 pa?

Even if you reduce the projected 'van &/or lease costs, it is still a hugely expensive project - & not cheap for prospective 'van owners. On rental alone, serviced pitches will be twice the price?? Even with a new 'van at £15K + £5 lease = £20K capital upfront!!

To me, it is also a very risky project that potentially could damage the NRA's finances if the take-up is poor.

Anyone got more of an insight into pricing?

Why has this got to be "NRA provided" caravans? How about providing your own if you pay say 10% of the value to the NRA? There are lot of very good second-hand park/static homes, £10K- £15K (£1K delivery) that will last a long time, look good on site & easily be connectable to the utilities.

[Mike Jenvey]

Reference sub-letting. To quote from NRA letter dated 21 May 2014:

There appears to be some ambiguity about letting caravans and I can confirm the following:-

* Caravans can be sub-let for shooting purposes
* All persons coccupying caravans will be bound by the conditions of the Caravan Site Condition of Hire and Bisley Camp Standing Orders

In practical terms we are keen for the caravans to be occupied by shooters using the ranges as frequently as possible throughout the season.

It was signed by Chris Dyers, Commercial & Operations Manager.

[zanes]

We don't have a f*** clue what we're doing with this

Seriously, they swing between "No one will want any" and "We'll be over run with people wanting them" before finishing with "There is absolutely no guarantee of success of this venture, but I am fairly of the opinion that it is absolutely the right way forward".

Surely some form of "might you be interested in acquiring a caravan pitch at a rough cost of £x/year" survey (even if informal, maybe amongst current owners, maybe on the website) would have been minimal due diligence before spending well over £250k of members money?!?!

And 65% recovery of construction costs over a 20 year lease- as above, how the hell does that even work? On going costs considered? (ha)

Sometimes I'm so close to calling "wind up" on the NRA or thinking that they're actively trying to grind civilian target shooting in this country into the ground

[Gaz]

Here's the rub, is anyone actually interested in these super-pitches or has Mercer just shovelled six figures that should have been spent on the ranges, roads and regions into a fantasy project?

[Gaz]

Reference sub-letting. To quote from NRA letter dated 21 May 2014:

There appears to be some ambiguity about letting caravans and I can confirm the following:-

* Caravans can be sub-let for shooting purposes
* All persons coccupying caravans will be bound by the conditions of the Caravan Site Condition of Hire and Bisley Camp Standing Orders

In practical terms we are keen for the caravans to be occupied by shooters using the ranges as frequently as possible throughout the season.

It was signed by Chris Dyers, Commercial & Operations Manager.

Do you have a copy of the full letter you could post on here?

[Mike Jenvey]

@ Gaz:

Do you have a copy of the full letter you could post on here?

Your wish is my command!

[Gaz]

Excellent, thank you!

[Mike Jenvey]

The details of prices are out:

http://www.uploadlibrary.com/NationalRi ... terpdf.pdf

£4K - £34K!!

Althrop 13’ x 39’; 2 bed price £32,455
13’ x 39’; 3 bed price £34,070
Gladstone 13’ x 38’; 2 bed price £31,594
13’ x 39’; 3 bed price £33,209
Templer 12 ’x 36;’ 2 bed price £24,064
12’ x 38;’ 2 bed price £24,825
12’ x 39’; 3 bed price £26,439

Rent - £1,950.

Lease premium - £3,500.

Siting fee (estimated) - £550.

Can't see the actual lease cost.

Looks like my initial figures weren't too far out............. Depending on lease cost, you are looking at £30K - £40K outlay!