New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

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Sim G
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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#241 Post by Sim G »

Dougan wrote:Sorry but I think you and Adam are being childish about this - I didn't like the inference of Neil's last post either, but that's his personal opinion on an unofficial forum...I would certainly object if Neil (or the NRA) were making such comments officially, but as they're not, then my main concern is that they put on the best Phoenix event they can...

...but to start knocking an event that's enjoyed by so many shooters (most of who are unaware of the politics and talk on forums) is being as negative to shooting as some of the things you complain about...

You really think that if someone in a position makes an "official" statement, which is contrary to their actual belief that then gives that individual any sort of credibility? What it tells me on this "unofficial" forum is that if Neil Francis expresses a personal opinion that is so out of whack with the organisation he represents, then the man has no integrity.

Likewise, that which he promotes I have no wish to support.

What price your principals, John?
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#242 Post by Dougan »

dromia wrote:Just for the record John I didn't say I would boycott the Phoenix.

I said that I would no longer be pursuing Gallery Rifle as a discipline in my club, if any of our members wants to do so then I'm sure I and the committee will support them, but I personally will not put my energies into a discipline that has someone with nfrances view as one of their leaders.

Childish if you think so, but I disagree. Me I'll put my energies into disciplines that support people with less narrow, divisive and unhealthy views, that is me exercising my choice at the end of the day I am supporting gun ownership.

Unpalatable as it may seem to you the NRA/Bisley and the rest divide is real and both sides take each other as they find them. You ask people to stop criticising the NRA and others want the NRA to be national and representative so that they don't feel the need to criticise. The NRA has a lot of historical baggage but they do nothing practical to challenge those views and show by example rather than rhetoric that they are a different animal now, if they did then putting the historical criticism to bed in a current context of different action would be easy and the naysayers would not have any traction. I ache to be able to say something good about the NRA to the shooters and gun owners who don't use Bisley.

Me I want to put my support behind something inclusive around the one thing that binds all people who shoot, gun ownership. The NRA is not that organisation. Where is the middle ground? where is the leadership and example? who should that come from?

Maybe it is a strong competitive spirit that makes shooters so keen to be at odds over anything they can find differences on I don't know but it is unhealthy and damaging to us all and malignant views like nfrances's have no place in my vision of the shooting world and I make no apologies about challenging them when they arise.
Personally I'm not interested in the 'historical baggage' right now - I finally joined last year when there were clear signs of improvement, and will give my financial and moral support while it continues...

...I understand some of your criticisms, especially about how 'national' the NRA actually is, but we've had the discussion about the location of Bisley so many times; it has to be somewhere...

...and I'll make the point again, that not all members want the NRA to be political...I'm happy with them concentrating on running and providing ranges for flagship events, club use, and even 'plinking'!

You can knock Bisley all you like, but can you imagine if events like the Phoenix became non-viable...what effect would that have on British shooting...?
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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#243 Post by Christel »

Dougan,

The Phoenix is non viable...
Dougan

Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#244 Post by Dougan »

I mean to the point where they stop the event, and some of the others...can Bisley exist on just the Imperial?

By far the most effective way to support British shooting right now is for more people attend the big events not boycott them...
Dougan

Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#245 Post by Dougan »

Sim G wrote:
Dougan wrote:Sorry but I think you and Adam are being childish about this - I didn't like the inference of Neil's last post either, but that's his personal opinion on an unofficial forum...I would certainly object if Neil (or the NRA) were making such comments officially, but as they're not, then my main concern is that they put on the best Phoenix event they can...

...but to start knocking an event that's enjoyed by so many shooters (most of who are unaware of the politics and talk on forums) is being as negative to shooting as some of the things you complain about...

You really think that if someone in a position makes an "official" statement, which is contrary to their actual belief that then gives that individual any sort of credibility? What it tells me on this "unofficial" forum is that if Neil Francis expresses a personal opinion that is so out of whack with the organisation he represents, then the man has no integrity.

Likewise, that which he promotes I have no wish to support.

What price your principals, John?
I don't see anyone giving 'official' statements on the Galleryrifle site...just a good website with loads of info for Gallery rifle shooters...

...and I don't think any of us want to be totally judged for what we say on the forum.

As for my principals...I'm with Watcher; in that I could be swayed by some french porn and a nice clock...
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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#246 Post by Alpha1 »

Dougan said
I mean to the point where they stop the event, and some of the others...can Bisley exist on just the Imperial?

By far the most effective way to support British shooting right now is for more people attend the big events not boycott them...
Read your own post can Bisley exist on just the Imperial. The most effective way to support British shooting is for more people to attend the big events.(At Bisley I guess)

You are not listening shooting is not about Bisley the clue is in the name NRA =NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION not the Bisley rifle association. Like I said before if you live within driving distance of Bisley join the NRA if you live in the North East of England has I do do don't waste your money. I despair.
Shooting for all not just the lucky ones that live within the Bisley catchment area.
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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#247 Post by Mike357 »

Bisley at Braidwood? There is recognition at last from the NRA that they need to reach out to the regions. Give them a chance.


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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#248 Post by Billy-Bullseye »

Dougan wrote:I mean to the point where they stop the event, and some of the others...can Bisley exist on just the Imperial?
The Phoenix meeting has been making a loss for the last few years, so I imagine the answer would be yes it can survive
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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#249 Post by dromia »

Dougan wrote: ...I understand some of your criticisms, especially about how 'national' the NRA actually is, but we've had the discussion about the location of Bisley so many times; it has to be somewhere...

...and I'll make the point again, that not all members want the NRA to be political...I'm happy with them concentrating on running and providing ranges for flagship events, club use, and even 'plinking'!

You can knock Bisley all you like, but can you imagine if events like the Phoenix became non-viable...what effect would that have on British shooting...?
That is the nub of it John. The NRA has to be more than Bisley, but it isn't and the vast majority of NRA members are like you and just see it as Bisley because they can shoot there and have no vision for it beyond that, That is why it will always just be Bisley shooting club and be the divisive issue it until it stops claiming a national role and admits its limitations and it Bisley centricity. Letting other organisations fulfil a national remit for gunowners and shooting that they are failing to do. The thing that worries me most currently about the NRA at the moment is the collecting of disciplines to its governing body remit, it looks to me that this is more to do with getting people into Bisley that promoting shooting across the United Kingdom. That is worry for shooting.
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Re: New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

#250 Post by karen »

dromia wrote:The thing that worries me most currently about the NRA at the moment is the collecting of disciplines to its governing body remit, it looks to me that this is more to do with getting people into Bisley that promoting shooting across the United Kingdom. That is worry for shooting.
And that isn't what is happening - the NRA is not "collecting disciplines". It has made a bid for one discipline which on the face of it seems sensible. I do not know all the history of the problems and in-fighting involved with this discipline but it's nothing to do with getting more people to Bisley.

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