New Petition - Part 2 (Number of signatures: 13,188)

[Blu]

Well mate your expectations and reality are two different things now. It isn't just about attending organised shoots which are a part of it, it's also about getting out there with your club on shooting days or booking a range and getting out with a couple of mates or five or six. It's about helping to set up things like youth days and other club events to name but a few to get new blood in.

Its about keeping 'new blood' in as well.

With regards to the Phoenix, Imperial and Trafalgar shoots, not everybody has the time due to family or the money to attend those shoots and not everybody lives close to where those shoots are held. I believe that the sport starts at grassroot level and that is the bread and butter of the sport, not the Phoenix or the Imperial nor the Trafalgar or organised shoots for that matter though I have stated they are a part of it, but not a big part of it.

Well - I'm hearing the usual excuses here for not shooting here :-(

I'd argue the Phoenix or the Imperial or the Trafalgar or any other organised shoot are the grassroots of the sport.

nfrancis,

Its about keeping 'new blood' in as well.

Yep I'll agree with that. But shooting down at Bisley or competition shooting is no guarantee of that.

Well - I'm hearing the usual excuses here for not shooting here :-(

If you are referring to what I wrote above that is no excuse, that is fact. The fact is family comes first, not shooting regardless how much anyone may love their sport. Another fact, not everyone lives near or around Bisley and has the deep pockets to get down and attend and take part in competitions. Another fact, getting out and just shooting with friends is just as important to the sport as taking part in competitions and no I don't agree that the competitions you mention or any competitions anywhere are the grass roots level.

The grass roots level are the clubs themselves and it's members because putting aside the competitions held at Bisley, it is just another shooting club that would cease to exist without it's membership regardless of any competition shooting. People just getting out and shooting and if they can taking someone along who has never done it before, or club members giving their time to set up youth days/weekends and such are far more valuable than any competition as far as I'm concerned.

Those friend are not excuses, those are facts of life, something you fail to recognise.

Blu

[techguy]

The grass roots level are the clubs themselves and it's members because putting aside the competitions held at Bisley, it is just another shooting club that would cease to exist without it's membership regardless of any competition shooting. People just getting out and shooting and if they can taking someone along who has never done it before, or club members giving their time to set up youth days/weekends and such are far more valuable than any competition as far as I'm concerned.

Well said that man (and for the record, I regularly take part in competitions in 3 disciplines)

[Blu]

The grass roots level are the clubs themselves and it's members because putting aside the competitions held at Bisley, it is just another shooting club that would cease to exist without it's membership regardless of any competition shooting. People just getting out and shooting and if they can taking someone along who has never done it before, or club members giving their time to set up youth days/weekends and such are far more valuable than any competition as far as I'm concerned.

Well said that man (and for the record, I regularly take part in competitions in 3 disciplines)

techguy, not so much these days but I do enter two or three competitions a year just for the fun of it. Saying that though I'm also lucky enough top be able to go out and shoot most days of the week be it at the club with mates or just out back on my own.

I'm also very active with the activities of my local shooting club, our first event of this year is our youth weekend which will be held on the 3rd and 4th of May which is a lot of work setting up as it includes .22 shooting, light recoil full bore shooting for the older kids, cowboy action shooting, clay shooting, archery, and fishing over at the small lake we have along with other outdoor sports related activities. On top of that I'm also one of three area NRA reps for Northern Michigan which keeps me fairly busy as well but I enjoy doing it all as much as I enjoy my shooting.

Blu

[Gaz]

The grass roots level are the clubs themselves and it's members because putting aside the competitions held at Bisley, it is just another shooting club that would cease to exist without it's membership regardless of any competition shooting. People just getting out and shooting and if they can taking someone along who has never done it before, or club members giving their time to set up youth days/weekends and such are far more valuable than any competition as far as I'm concerned.

Those friend are not excuses, those are facts of life, something you fail to recognise.

I agree with Blu about as often as you see cats and dogs sitting down together for a friendly pint. But I'll wholeheartedly second that - the grass roots of shooting are clubs, whether or not they shoot together. Competitions are a stage above that.

anyone seen the front page of the Evening Standard tonight?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ga ... 67108.html

Yes. I'm emailing Justin Davenport - usually he's fairly well informed, but on this occasion he's chosen to go with the line taken by the police/NABIS press officers and not to even try and look for the alternative. It's an outright lie for these so-called professionals to claim that section 58 is some kind of blanket loophole allowing inner-city teens to wander around in public waving a Mk.VI Webley under people's noses.

[Blu]

Gaz,

I agree with Blu about as often as you see cats and dogs sitting down together for a friendly pint.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Blu

[dromia]

Nfrancis.

What is your view on shooters who do not compete but still shoot regularly?

Depends what they are shooting.

Use of firearms for practical reasons such as vermin control or animal management aside - if your primary reason for owning firearms is listed as target shooting you probably need to be target shooting to justify its ownership. If anyone says thay want a firearm for target shooting - why wouldn't they go target shooting?

At the moment most police areas seem to accept this as turning up to a club a couple of times a year and 'signing in'. Fine - this was always the case - even before the laws changed in the 1990s.

However one day something will happen again in this country and firearms ownership will, as usual, be called into question. Worst case scenario is if you are not really target shooting you may well have difficulty in justifying ownership of that firearm. I don't really count aimless pinking as target shooting.

So - my views - well - I could argue that they are the sport's worst nightmares because when something does happen again we'll have 2 million Daily Mail readers crying for blood on the basis we had thousands of gun nuts who had no real justification or reason to hold 'an arsenal of lethal weapons' when they never actually went target shooting. That's my sport down the pan. I could probably take up clay shooting however!

Alternatively I could argue they are missing out on 90% of what shooting is all about. Essentially the same as any other sport or pastime - football, cricket, basketball, darts, chess - whatever... Competition is what shooting sports are - its not about guns (contrary to popular belief) its about shooting.

Reality is somewhere in the middle although I do have serious reservations about why people want guns for target shooting and then don't go target shooting. People who are more interested in guns than shooting worry me - they should probably worry everyone.

Dear oh dear, that is one of the most destructive and divisive views of shooting I have ever had the misfortune to come across, if your attitude prevails then our chances of saving shooting are gone.

I currently have 80 odd firearms on my personal FAC the majority of which are for collecting and research as well as target shooting. No where in the paper work or in my discussions with firearms licensing does it say the target shooting has to be competitive, that is just your interpretation of the words as that is what you like to do. Shooting is far more than a mere sport, it does not have to be done competitively.

I would suggest that the majority of gun owners in this country do not possess firearms primarily for competitive shooting, they have them because they like and are fascinated by guns and shooting them at targets, fur, feather or paper not as purely competitive tools and non competitive use is absolutely good reason to possess. Your type of gun owner/shooter is definitely in the minority and your attitude has estranged you from the vast majority of FAC holders, you must have a PhD in divisiveness.

Non competitive target shooting and owning firearms for collecting because you like guns is all good reason to possess and recognised so by law. I am definitely interested in guns, fascinated by their history, designs, manufacture, use and the ballistics of their ammunition. You are quiet prepared to make a damning, shallow, negative judgement on me questioning my suitability to have firearms on the basis of your narrow, negative, self serving competitive target shooting only view of yours. You should work for an anti gun tabloid as that poorly thought through hysterical "reasoning" is just what the anti gun brigade thrive on.

Still your loony tune views are yours and you are welcome to them and I will do everything I can to protect your right to pursue your shooting and gun interests even though I am secure in the knowledge that your would gladly surrender my guns to retain your own.

[Blu]

Dougan.

You're spot on that I'm not married with kids; but that doesn't mean I'm not still subject to the law of 'best laid plans...' - It's one of the big bank-holiday weekends, and I'd of loved to go shooting...however It's my nephew's wedding today, and I've ended up host to some of the visiting family from abroad for the weekend...no wonder I'm a little grumpy

Dougan, now take what you're having to do and add a spouse and a couple of kids. Oh Dougan, what you're having to put up with for the weekend, that's not no where near in the same league as someone with a spouse and kids mate. I'd guess that your plans get upset occasionally, for us married with kids it's common occurrence but hey it comes with the territory and you try and work around it best you can.

Still by the time you read this your weekend will be all done and dusted, I hope it wasn't to much of a pain for you mate.

Blu

[Sim G]

Alternatively I could argue they are missing out on 90% of what shooting is all about. Essentially the same as any other sport or pastime - football, cricket, basketball, darts, chess - whatever... Competition is what shooting sports are - its not about guns (contrary to popular belief) its about shooting.

Reality is somewhere in the middle although I do have serious reservations about why people want guns for target shooting and then don't go target shooting. People who are more interested in guns than shooting worry me - they should probably worry everyone.

The fact that you believe shooting is purely that, shooting, with no appreciation of what you possess or use, worries me and probably should worry everyone... You have no concept of the responsibility. If you think it's 90% what darts is! then Fvck off and play darts...

I attended 10 years worth of pistol AD. I competed in IPSC World Shoot X at Bisley. I've attended every Phoenix since it's inception. Mostly for nostalgia, but I've also shot there. Phoenix will never be a Pistol AD and if fat old men selling counterfeit fragrance and fantasy swords are allowed to continue then it will all go down the pan. Regardless of the shooting, most attend Phoenix for the shopping.

One year I was invited by one of the RO's to the "behind the scenes" evenings. I haven't shot there since witnessing that, even though I've always put a couple of guns in the car should I wish to. But I'll guarantee you one thing after reading again your negative, narrow view, I won't be going to Phoenix this year. You have turned me right off it. It will be unheard of amongst my shooting social circle, which is a shame as I wanted a couple more ammo bags off the Dutch guy.

The reason I won't attend Phoenix is again is because of your view and your standing in Gallery Rifle. When asked, I'll tell them, the negative bigoted view of Neil Francis stopped me going. I want no association with what he represents. And when your gallery rifle is on it's ar$e, I'll still be shooting round paper targets, aimlessly plinking, with the guns I own as part of a collection, purely for the joy of ownership and historical study...

You're a cock.

[Sandgroper]

Agree wholeheartedly with Adam and Simon.

[dromia]

The reason I won't attend Phoenix is again is because of your view and your standing in Gallery Rifle.

I have to say that his view has had a negative impact on his discipline, I am now having second thoughts about trying to develop gallery rifle shooting at my club when someone with his position in the discipline promotes such an anti gun view.

Gallery rifle will now be associated with this lunatic stance much to its detriment I'm afraid.