Reloading Setup

[rox]

OK so presumably I'm correct in saying the powder trickler isn't required if you use an electronic dispenser, because it will dispense the exact amount of propellant. Is that right?

Correct. Unless you also want a foolproof backup method for when the electronic gizmos fail.

OK so if I understand you correctly, the electronic dispenser with built in scale, is an alternative to the beam scale and manual dispenser.

It's an alternative to:

Thrower (aka measure), trickler and beam balance, or to:
Thrower, trickler and digital balance.
For the sake of completeness I suppose you could substitute 'dippers' for the thrower.

They seem to churn out 2-3 grains/second, which seems particularly slow to me, isn't it about 20+ seconds/round?

When I used a Chargemaster it took between 20 and 25 seconds on average to dispense a .308 charge. This is probably not a million miles from the time to throw and trickle using a beam balance or to do the same to a digital balance (which is usually slightly quicker than a beam balance to settle). In theory you can be seating the bullet while the Chargemaster is dispensing the next charge, but you must do so without causing air currents or vibrations that could influence the chargemaster, so it really needs to be on a separate bench. However, by doing so you would be already focussing on speed, and not on care and attention to detail of a single task (departing from the 'Henry Ford' approach).

I would definitely start with the thrower, trickler, beam balance combination. Do one thing at a time. Let the process evolve from there. Those 3 items will serve you well for life. You could add a Targetmaster or Chargemaster later. Don't worry about speed. It is better that you take time over this, especially to start with, and throwing + trickling exerts a speed-limiting control on the process.

When you trickle up to final weight you don't need a fancy thrower. Most stick powers don't meter particularly well in a thrower anyway. For convenience I like the RCBS Competition Powder Measure, due to the micrometer adjustment, but most of the main manufacturers make a similar powder measure of similar quality. For bulk loading I upgrade the hopper to the one from the 'QuickChange' measure (not the 'QuickChange High-Capactity' one though - it will not fit), but for standard operation the original hopper is fine.

..

[Dombo63]

I would advise getting a universal decapper. Although the resizing dies also pop out the primers, you are doing this with a dirty case so your dies will get grubby as well.
If you are only reloading brass fired from your rifle you only need to neck size. This doesn't work the brass so much and you can get more loads before having to scrap the stuff.
Try making up a few dummy rounds before doing it for real, ie get a feel for seating the bullet and getting the neck tension right.
As for cleaning, have you thought about doing it wet with stainless steel media? I gave some 303 cases to a mate to clean and they came back bright and sparkly inside and out, even the primier pockets.
Also worth checking and rechecking the load tables in books against current data published by the powder manufacturers. For example the Lee Reloading book has slightly different loads of Vihtavouri N140 than Viht's current site for a given weight of bullet in 155gr 308.
You also need a caliper to measure the cartridge and case length. Lyman and RCBS make good dial calipers and you might want a collimator too as you are loading for supreme accuracy. Hornady make these.
Sharpie pens are useful to write the load data and COL (cartridge overall length) on the case while developing your ideal load. You don't want to carefully work up some rounds with different loads and COLs, then get them mixed up when you knock the ammo box over.
Oh and finally make sure you wear safety glasses when priming.

[HALODIN]

Thanks rox, it's appreciated. I'll roll up everything everyone's said and come up with a plan over the weekend when I have a bit more time. Point taken about taking your time!

Thanks again,

Craig.

Correct. Unless you also want a foolproof backup method for when the electronic gizmos fail.

It's an alternative to:

Thrower (aka measure), trickler and beam balance, or to:
Thrower, trickler and digital balance.
For the sake of completeness I suppose you could substitute 'dippers' for the thrower.

When I used a Chargemaster it took between 20 and 25 seconds on average to dispense a .308 charge. This is probably not a million miles from the time to throw and trickle using a beam balance or to do the same to a digital balance (which is usually slightly quicker than a beam balance to settle). In theory you can be seating the bullet while the Chargemaster is dispensing the next charge, but you must do so without causing air currents or vibrations that could influence the chargemaster, so it really needs to be on a separate bench. However, by doing so you would be already focussing on speed, and not on care and attention to detail of a single task (departing from the 'Henry Ford' approach).

I would definitely start with the thrower, trickler, beam balance combination. Do one thing at a time. Let the process evolve from there. Those 3 items will serve you well for life. You could add a Targetmaster or Chargemaster later. Don't worry about speed. It is better that you take time over this, especially to start with, and throwing + trickling exerts a speed-limiting control on the process.

When you trickle up to final weight you don't need a fancy thrower. Most stick powers don't meter particularly well in a thrower anyway. For convenience I like the RCBS Competition Powder Measure, due to the micrometer adjustment, but most of the main manufacturers make a similar powder measure of similar quality. For bulk loading I upgrade the hopper to the one from the 'QuickChange' measure (not the 'QuickChange High-Capactity' one though - it will not fit), but for standard operation the original hopper is fine.

..

[dromia]

if you are wanting to go electronic the have a very good look at the Target master, far superior to the digitals like the RCBS Chrargemaster..

Here is a review I did on it.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... get+master

[HALODIN]

That was one of the attractions of the Forster single stage press, it's supposed to minimise the primer gunge.

"If you are only reloading brass fired from your rifle" <- Do you mean if you're resizing the brass to go back in the gun it was last used in?

Dummy rounds, yes good idea and whilst I already have a digital caliper, I'll look in to the Sharpie pens and I'll probably buy 2 books to cross reference load data. Thanks for the tips.

Cheers,

Craig.

I would advise getting a universal decapper. Although the resizing dies also pop out the primers, you are doing this with a dirty case so your dies will get grubby as well.
If you are only reloading brass fired from your rifle you only need to neck size. This doesn't work the brass so much and you can get more loads before having to scrap the stuff.
Try making up a few dummy rounds before doing it for real, ie get a feel for seating the bullet and getting the neck tension right.
As for cleaning, have you thought about doing it wet with stainless steel media? I gave some 303 cases to a mate to clean and they came back bright and sparkly inside and out, even the primier pockets.
Also worth checking and rechecking the load tables in books against current data published by the powder manufacturers. For example the Lee Reloading book has slightly different loads of Vihtavouri N140 than Viht's current site for a given weight of bullet in 155gr 308.
You also need a caliper to measure the cartridge and case length. Lyman and RCBS make good dial calipers and you might want a collimator too as you are loading for supreme accuracy. Hornady make these.
Sharpie pens are useful to write the load data and COL (cartridge overall length) on the case while developing your ideal load. You don't want to carefully work up some rounds with different loads and COLs, then get them mixed up when you knock the ammo box over.
Oh and finally make sure you wear safety glasses when priming.

[rox]

have a very good look at the Target master, far superior to the digitals like the RCBS Chrargemaster..
http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... get+master

What accuracy do you actually get with the targetmaster? I read lots of claims that it is 'very accurate' but I've never seen any actual numbers. I don't doubt the claims, just interested in the scientific facts.

..

[HALODIN]

Thanks. That trickler tube doesn't look vertical enough to dispense the powder, do you have any issues with it?

if you are wanting to go electronic the have a very good look at the Target master, far superior to the digitals like the RCBS Chrargemaster..

Here is a review I did on it.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... get+master

[StanDeasy]

The Target master is an automated trickler and all the trickler systems I've used, which include the old Autoscale and the Chargemaster, are prone to random overcharging due to irregular clumping of powder grains.

How does the Target master avoid this problem?

[dromia]

The Target master is as accurate as your scale, it is trickler that comes to the charge weight set on the scale slowly. You dump a close to but under charge from a volume measure in the pan and the target master trickles up to weight, the angle of trickle is adjustable to ensure a kernel by kernel trickle which stops as soon as the set weight is reached. Once set up I have never had an over or under charge from the Target Master and never had to return a charge.

The difference with the target master is that the bulk of the charge comes from a measure and it just trickles up to weight, the others trickling the whole charge can overrun, the Target Master doesn't.

Prior to getting the Target master I ran Pact Powder dispenser and an RCBS charge master both were very good but did go over or under occasionally, I've sold the Charge Master and kept the Pact as the separate scales are handy occasionally.

No doubt not scientific just my experience.

Target Master has a You Tube video that shows you how it works and 1066 on this forum is the creator and maker so he will give you a more "scientific" view if you ask him.

[Dombo63]

That was one of the attractions of the Forster single stage press, it's supposed to minimise the primer gunge.

"If you are only reloading brass fired from your rifle" <- Do you mean if you're resizing the brass to go back in the gun it was last used in?

Yes, the brass fired from your rifle is fire-formed to the chamber, so a perfect fit. I was playing around with some empty 308 cases and the ones from my rifle dropped into the chamber nicely whereas some others fired once from a friend's rifle wouldn't fit