Nigel bloody Farage sinks hope of pistol ban repeal

[froggy]

NFrancis & Gaz,

We have a proper firearms licensing system in this country and the ban on handguns is not ludicrous. Its perfectly understandable that certain types of firearms are not generally available to members of the general public

Does that mean that when a licenced shooter will use his Semi-Auto 22lr that should have been revoked as suggested by his club for mudering innocents, you will support gallery rifle to be shot exclusively with repeating air-rifles ??


BTW, the enquiry suggested that "safety" call for the prohibition of large calibers, not 22lr . So indeed the ban is ludicrous in the way that it was a political electoralist knee-jerk decision which had nothing to do with protecting the public....


Gaz,

Because unless we pay attention to the politicians, we won't have anything left to shoot.
Agree with you and only a politician will be able to put it on the agenda in Westminter since it is doubtfull that a popular movement does it .
So the next question to you is, how many politician until today have move in this direction ?

[joe]

i cant believe there are 'shooters' in this forum that have supported the handgun ban! this is problem with us in the UK and now the governments in the past were able to ban certain types of firearms ! its f*** disgrace! wheather or not you like shooting handguns or self loading rifles you MUST support the right to own a handgun or self loading rifle by person who holds a FAC! we need to more like the US NRA ! constitution and culture aside they have a regous and aggressive stance against any form of further gun control ie. NO COMPROMISE! if we the shooting public and verious so called pro shooting organsations had this attuide, then maby just maby we would not have lost the handguns and self loading centre fire rifles ! my mate bought .44 long barrel revolver a couple years ago and one of the members (target rifle shooter) said "...whats that...i dont agree with that, those types of guns should stay banned..." really !

pistols or ar-15 rifles do not hold magical powers that will suddenly turn a FAC holder into mass killer! what the stupid news report failed to mation was that the hangun ban does not apply across the union! northern irland ! i suspect most sheeple dont know this, but what makes the people of northan irland more turstworthy then the people of england, scotland and wales??? if handguns are such a threat to children, then why are they not banned right across the union?? in fact they is no country in europe that bans hanguns or even self loading rifles out right! do the sheeple know that as well?? they bang about bloody america, when they should be looking at the EU! the the EU is not a wild west crime ridden cess pool but the meida will never mation that! is seems for whatever reason the media want all guns banned ! What gets me angry is the stupid liberals, gun control networks and sheeple see nothing wrong with the government wanting and going about a total disarmed general public but at the same time see nothing wrong with the state getting more aggressive fire power then ever before !!! why is that ! guns are only good in the hands of the state?? do they really think it is good the people to fear the government ? do they relise the countries that have this policy are police states like north korea etc?

consider what we got know, the most tought gun laws in the free world :-
the long barrel revolver allowed in all calibers including the .44 magnum ! special holsers are made for it, so in winter time are still concealable but are not practicable however a hacksaw will turn it into a normal handgun! so i can be trusted with this but not a cut down version ?? what the difference ??

.22lr long barrel postols - as above

lever release (self unloading only firearms) in the form of rifle and soon to be in a long barrel 9mm pistol formate, - rate of fire is practically the same as a true self loader....so how is a true self loader going to make me any more dangerous ??

straight pull ak's ar15/10 etc same set up as semi auto whithout the gas system but has a spring that assists in loading the cartridge into the camber....although not as fast a semi auto, they still have the capability to have a high rate of fire, quite a bit faster then a bolt action rifle and most importantly without breaking your sight picture and with minimum amount of movement (compared to a turn bolt action rifle) ! in fact they could even be used for CQB ! but is this is somehow far safer then a proper self loading rifle?

lever action rifles - like the above - still has a fast rate of fire

shotguns - much more lethal then any pistol! even in sawn off version ! years ago in Putney i think, an armed robber with saw off beretta semi auto shotgun managed to for a long time to hold off the armed police, shot an armed copper in leg and i think the said copper couldnt work again! evently shot and killed in the back of the head as he ran off! (all this happened in and around puntney high st, back streets, bridge etc and not holed up in some house or flat) before this encounter he managed to conceal his shotgun on his person !

we need to stand to together and say no to any form controls of ANY kind ! i fear that if labour gets into power again, or especially with a coalition with the liberals our days will be numbered ! starting with guns in clubs only, then eventully a total ban unless of course you a member of the state!

the purpose of original firearms act 1920 wasnt about public safety, the government worried about an up rising !

[nfrancis]

NFrancis & Gaz,Does that mean that when a licenced shooter will use his Semi-Auto 22lr that should have been revoked as suggested by his club for mudering innocents, you will support gallery rifle to be shot exclusively with repeating air-rifles ??

Quite frankly it matters not a jot what any of the above is shot with - the competitive sporting aspect of it all will be exactly the same. I guess it depends on whether you are more interested in guns or more interested in shooting. For me its the latter.

BTW, the enquiry suggested that "safety" call for the prohibition of large calibres, not 22lr . So indeed the ban is ludicrous in the way that it was a political electoralist knee-jerk decision which had nothing to do with protecting the public....

Of course it had nothing to do with protecting the public - it was political appeasement. As I said - a classroom full of school children were massacred by a sporting target pistol shooter, a member of a gun club who obtained a licence to own numerous guns. What do we expect society to ask of itself in such situations?

wheather or not you like shooting handguns or self loading rifles you MUST support the right to own a handgun or self loading rifle by person who holds a FAC! we need to more like the US NRA ! constitution and culture aside they have a regous and aggressive stance against any form of further gun control ie. NO COMPROMISE!

Its largely attitudes like this that finds the shooting community in the situation its in. I'm afraid the vast majority don't want nutters owning lots of guns and posts like the one above simple portray the average shooter as a gun toting nutter. Its not the general public which this community seems to keen to label as 'uneducated antis' - which are the problem. Its this very highly patronising and insulting attitude which is exactly the problem that the majority of people have issue with. If you live in a high order complex society shared with 60 million other people and you want to own a gun you best prove to me you are a fit and capable person to have this responsibility.

People who have no interest in guns and shooting are no different to anyone posting here - they are no less educated, ignorant or enlightened or less politically astute just because they don't own or have no interest in owning a gun. Owning a gun, as some people seem to so often suggest, does not elevate you to a higher moral or social plane. To suggest as such is nothing more than arrogance and ignorance itself.

If there is any education to happen I'd say its on forums like this - and its in the area of public relations education. And its required ASAP.

[froggy]

NFrancis & Gaz,Does that mean that when a licenced shooter will use his Semi-Auto 22lr that should have been revoked as suggested by his club for mudering innocents, you will support gallery rifle to be shot exclusively with repeating air-rifles ??


Quite frankly it matters not a jot what any of the above is shot with - the competitive sporting aspect of it all will be exactly the same. I guess it depends on whether you are more interested in guns or more interested in shooting. For me its the latter.

Surprisingly enough , most shooters will have an interest in both. So, if I understand correctly, just because you are not interested in guns you are happy that your buddy gets his taken away from him ? niiiiice ....

the competitive sporting aspect of it all will be exactly the same

I guess you'll tell me the same applies for darts if it all goes tit-up ...

[joe]

NFrancis & Gaz,Does that mean that when a licenced shooter will use his Semi-Auto 22lr that should have been revoked as suggested by his club for mudering innocents, you will support gallery rifle to be shot exclusively with repeating air-rifles ??

Quite frankly it matters not a jot what any of the above is shot with - the competitive sporting aspect of it all will be exactly the same. I guess it depends on whether you are more interested in guns or more interested in shooting. For me its the latter.

BTW, the enquiry suggested that "safety" call for the prohibition of large calibres, not 22lr . So indeed the ban is ludicrous in the way that it was a political electoralist knee-jerk decision which had nothing to do with protecting the public....

Of course it had nothing to do with protecting the public - it was political appeasement. As I said - a classroom full of school children were massacred by a sporting target pistol shooter, a member of a gun club who obtained a licence to own numerous guns. What do we expect society to ask of itself in such situations?

wheather or not you like shooting handguns or self loading rifles you MUST support the right to own a handgun or self loading rifle by person who holds a FAC! we need to more like the US NRA ! constitution and culture aside they have a regous and aggressive stance against any form of further gun control ie. NO COMPROMISE!

Its largely attitudes like this that finds the shooting community in the situation its in. I'm afraid the vast majority don't want nutters owning lots of guns and posts like the one above simple portray the average shooter as a gun toting nutter. Its not the general public which this community seems to keen to label as 'uneducated antis' - which are the problem. Its this very highly patronising and insulting attitude which is exactly the problem that the majority of people have issue with. If you live in a high order complex society shared with 60 million other people and you want to own a gun you best prove to me you are a fit and capable person to have this responsibility.

People who have no interest in guns and shooting are no different to anyone posting here - they are no less educated, ignorant or enlightened or less politically astute just because they don't own or have no interest in owning a gun. Owning a gun, as some people seem to so often suggest, does not elevate you to a higher moral or social plane. To suggest as such is nothing more than arrogance and ignorance itself.

If there is any education to happen I'd say its on forums like this - and its in the area of public relations education. And its required ASAP.

the 1987 ban on self loading rifle was a compromise by NRA to protect the pistol shooters! 1997 we lost our pistols ! this is what happens when we compromise.....we lose more our right and bans! how much more do you want to compromise just avoid an all out ban??? we cant compromise on anything ! we jump through enough hoops to get an FAC ! ryan, hamilton, bird were not due to failings in the liancing system but the police who had the power to take they tickets but didnt and we get the blame !

[mackie]

The govt could have appeased everyone by blowing wide open the corruption and massive failings in policing that lead to Dunblane occurring.

[Blue Lizard]

The govt could have appeased everyone by blowing wide open the corruption and massive failings in policing that lead to Dunblane occurring.

Yes.

Hamilton should not have had his guns, and the law as it stood had all the strength to allow the Police to relieve him of them. The further aspects regarding the background to Hamilton's dealings and the failings and corruption that have been untouched/officially covered-up for the next 80 years or so are staggering.

[Christel]

We have a proper firearms licensing system in this country and the ban on handguns is not ludicrous. Its perfectly understandable that certain types of firearms are not generally available to members of the general public. In this country it happens to be pistols and you know the reason for that - a firearms certificate holder using legally held pistols which he obtained and learned to use by being a member of a shooting club very similar to the ones you and I are members of shot a classroom of 5 and 6 year olds to death. Just what do you expect a society to reflect upon when this happens?

Well - instead of getting our knickers in a twist about what any 3rd rate "here today gone tomorrow" politician says why don't we just get on with the shooting?

Many people have died over football...still not banned, I wonder why there has not been a public outcry about the need to ban football with all the associated deaths as there has been with the shooting of people? Could this be a financial thing?

Frankly, "get on with our shooting"...we may not be able to for much longer because if we do not stand united and accept all shooting disciplines we will end up with nothing.

[Gaz]

NFrancis & Gaz,Does that mean that when a licenced shooter will use his Semi-Auto 22lr that should have been revoked as suggested by his club for mudering innocents, you will support gallery rifle to be shot exclusively with repeating air-rifles ??

"Je ne comprends pas"

All lawful shooting is good shooting. We need licensing that focuses on the person and not the object, and we need that licensing system to be enforced robustly and fairly across the board. I don't give a damn what you choose to shoot so long as you do it safely and lawfully and not in a manner that turns Joe Public against us (eg. those exploding "ex girlfriend" humanoid targets some American firm was selling last year).

I must say I skim-read nfrancis' post that I agreed with earlier in the thread. I don't support banning certain types of guns and not others, except perhaps full autos.

But what we need right now is not to go digging over the past. We need to stand up and be positive about ourselves and our sport. No more talk of appeasing the antis with compulsory mental health checks or pre-emptively banning X or Y, please. We're already treated more or less like registered sex offenders and I have no desire to allow the state to stick its grubby little fingers any further into my life than it already has.

[Blackknight1974]

Back to the "need" argument.

No-one needs a car (or motorbike) that is capable of going faster than 70 miles an hour as that is illegal on UK roads. How many people are killed on the roads every year?