Fox Wars

[Hauptman]

If it came to a choice between putting my chickens in a fox-proof enclosure, or allowing someone to wander around shooting the foxes, I'd go for the enclosure.........
As for hunting them with dogs...........words fail me.
Even the mosquito has it's place, as do poisonous snakes, spiders etc.
The bear scenario? If you were stupid enough to put yourself in the position where you're likely to be confronted by a hungry bear without any protection, then yes, you're fair game.
Like the swimmers/divers who occasionally provide a meal for a shark by swimming in their territory.......as a certain Scots comedian said in one of his routines "Them's the breaks".

H/man

[Dombo63]

But we are talking about rights. So once we have decided to cause no unnecessary harm or suffering, which we agree upon, where do we stop? What of the right of the fly not to be eaten by the spider, the spider not to be eaten by the bird.
Or vice versa if a particularly large, bird-eating spider?
Should I destroy the spider's web and his right to shelter and sustenance?
I have a compost bin in my garden, half of which has been colonised by ants who have turned the mulch into the most amazing looking fine soil.
Does their right to a warm, safe home in which to raise eggs and milk aphids override mine to rich soil in which to grow strawberries protect my children's guinea pigs' right to a rich and varied diet?

[Hauptman]

"So once we have decided to cause no unnecessary harm or suffering, which we agree upon, where do we stop?"

Right there........

H/man

[Dougan]

I think you're making it unnecessarily complicated - Personally I try to live by the simple rule of; I'll only kill something if I want to eat it, or it wants to eat me...

...so in the case of a bear, I would be prepared to shoot one in self defense...however there are many things you can do to not encourage a bear attack, and to not do so is irresponsible and unfair to the bear...

...as for the mosquito; speaking as someone who's has had Dengue fever...killing them is self defense!

I think sometimes some animal rights campaigners can't lose sight of the fact that we're animals as well, and have our rights too - so I'm not saying that farmers shouldn't be able to defend their livelihood, including shooting animals on their land, but they should be expected to take necessary measures to discourage (as opposed to usually encouraging) pests...

...the badger cull is a typical example - There is solid evidence of 'corner cutting' in modern intensive farming, including poor bio-security and lack of necessary infrastructure investment - This is all down to the want for cheaper and cheaper food...so personally I think consumers and supermarkets are as much to blame as anyone else; but we still decided to take the cheap option and blame the badgers...

...this for me is an infringement of their rights.

The badger example is obviously debatable, but I think there are some obvious examples of atrocious animal abuse...e.g when a group of people get their jollies hunting foxes on horseback and toasting it's ripped up corpse...that's clearly f*** up...

[Dombo63]

I think you're making it unnecessarily complicated -...

Not complicated enough; if it's sunny tomorrow i'll be taking those ants out with a magnifying glass.

[Chuck]

...as for the mosquito; speaking as someone who's has had Dengue fever...killing them is self defense!

clapclap clapclap clapclap All summer long not ONE bite, now it's cooling down they are out in force - and all that mosquito spray is useless, wish I had more of the old Rentokil stuff that dropped anything that flew.

Ripping foxes apart and having a laugh and drink over it, yes Dougan, that is terminally fcd up for sure.

Rights of flies not to be eaten by birds etc :lol: :lol: - someone is having a wee smoke tonight eh :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Hauptman]

You forgot about the bit where they smear the foxes blood on their kids faces...............allegedly (I've never actually seen it. I tend to keep well clear of twats on horses with packs of dogs)

H/man

[meles meles]

The badger example is obviously debatable...

Not round this neck of the woods, it isn't !

*scowls and loads Noise Magnet*

[Dougan]

You forgot about the bit where they smear the foxes blood on their kids faces...............allegedly

I'm sure that some hunts (have I spelled that correctly) carried the tradition on up until the ban - I witnessed it myself in the 80s (not the event, but the group coming back to the stables with a lad with blood still on his face) - The riders were mainly made up of show-jumpers and eventers, who also occasionally enjoyed a little hare-coursing as well

[Dougan]

The badger example is obviously debatable...

Not round this neck of the woods, it isn't !

*scowls and loads Noise Magnet*

Sorry stripy one - I meant that unfortunately there are a significant number of protagonists who are still in favor of the cull...where as there aren't many who would argue that letting hounds kill a fox is OK...