Taking a non-shooter to Bisley?

[IainWR]

Hi

The sequence has to be:

Club (secretary or other designated official) books the range in the name of the club.
Person without SCC shoots under supervision until deemed suitable by Club Chairman.
Club Chairman issues SCC.
Person may now shoot without close supervision.

But note that somebody must still sign for the range, which signature also certifies that they will ensure that everyone using their targets is qualified, competent and observes the rules ie the duties of an RCO even though they do not actually have to hold an RCO qualification. We rely on the club to appoint people of suitable experience and competence to this duty at Bisley.

Also note that you as an NRA member may, with the approval of the person booking the range, use any target at all for which your SCC qualifies you, regardless of who has booked it.

Iain

[HeatherW762]

The NRASC will be having a guest day in January - 12th from memory. If you are already registered with the club, you'll get an email about it next week, if not - register by sending an email to nrasc@nra.org.uk and then you'll get an intro email and details about next years shoots. Basically, on a guest day, we provide targets, markers, RCO and you provide guest and kit.

Hope that helps
Heather

[hitchphil]

A slight diversion on this topic but - for the benfit of readers what is the precise procedure for organising & running a club guest day at Bisley as I have seen & heard of many variations ranging from 'have a completed S21 form in the back pocket' thru to giving 2 weeks notice to local & Surrey FLO's? .................Then I can compare what we do :-)

Also what about own range for say 22? or even an air rifle range for say Scouts?

[IainWR]

Ah, the complexities of Home Office Approval (S15 Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988) versus running a miniature rifle range (S11(4) Firearms Act 1968).

To run a guest day, you need to notify your intention to do so to the police force through which your Home Office Approval was issued, at least 48 hours in advance of the event. The guests must be acquaintances of club members or members of a recognised outside group. All guest members (and that word members is important - it makes it clear that access to firearms is legal by virtue of S15(1) of the 1988 Act) must sign a declaration that they are not prohibited from possessing a firearm under S21 Firearms Act 1968. All guest members must be supervised one-on-one by a full club member or a person holding a coaching qualification issued by one of the recognised national bodies. Guest members must not have unsupervised access to firearms and should not handle ammunition. You can run a guest day on any range that you have legal access to.

OTOH, if your club only uses .22s or airguns, S11(4) of the 1968 Act applies on your home range only, and anyone at all may walk in off the street and have a go (subject to their not being prohibited under S21). You do not need Home office Approval for S11(4) to apply.

And all you have to do at Bisley is book targets etc in the name of the club through the range office in the usual way, and use supervisors who hold SCCs. It would be good to tell the range office what you are up to, but there is no rule-based requirement to do so.

[hitchphil]

Phew - We are compliant

But definiton of 'home range'? - if we lease one once a month does that count?

[IainWR]

Sorry, loose language from me in an attempt to avoid actually quoting the law.

What matters here is the route by which your guest is exempted from the requirement under S1 Firearms Act 1968 to have an FAC before possessing a gun.

The exemption under S11(4) says
"A person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which no firearms are used other than air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding ·23 inch calibre may, without holding a certificate, have in his possession, or purchase or acquire, such miniature rifles and ammunition suitable therefor; and any person may, without holding a certificate, use any such rifle and ammunition at such a range or gallery".

It follows that to use this exemption the range must in practice be limited to .22rf rifles and less - it is accepted that an AR-15 for instance is not a "miniature rifle" - that wording has the same sense as in the old name of the NSRA - "Society of Miniature Rifle Clubs". The exemption is available to "A person conducting ..." so if you hire a range it would apply to your RCO, provided that the range limits were compliant in the first place.

Iain

[Gaz]

The exemption under S11(4) says
"A person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which no firearms are used other than air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding ·23 inch calibre may, without holding a certificate, have in his possession, or purchase or acquire, such miniature rifles and ammunition suitable therefor; and any person may, without holding a certificate, use any such rifle and ammunition at such a range or gallery".

At risk of diverting the thread slightly...

The usual requirements for secure storage etc are all FAC conditions, so, does the bolded bit above mean that .22 rifles acquired/possessed under S11(4) are thus not subject to the usual restrictions on slots for firearms, ammo purchase/store limits, good reason, and all the rest of the bureaucracy?

Seems like a mighty wide loophole if so, and one that I'm very surprised survived the 88 and 97 acts.

[Burner]

WOW!
With all that just to get a single round down range for the first time, How the heck you get any new shooters?
You folks sound like you are qualifying someone to do a heart transplant.

[IainWR]

Gaz

1. Shhh...

2. Basically, yes. It doesn't seem to restrict how many miniature rifles or how much .22" ammo may be held, the fact of conducting or carrying on the range or gallery would seem to be the good reason, and if you can persuade an RFD to hand over the guns & ammo without you producing written authorisation, no paperwork seems to be required.

3. However, note that the exemption, as regards possession, applies to the person "conducting or carrying on ..." the range. I think that once the person stops conducting or carrying on such a range, the exemption ceases. So, for example, they can't carry the gun to another range to use it unless they are going to run that other range, and they can't take it to a club where gallery rifles are shot on the same range.

The constraints of this useful exemption are such that it is of limited applicability, and the flexibility such that many police forces won't or can't believe it. Let's not push them to get more worked up.

The exemption under S11(4) says
"A person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which no firearms are used other than air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding ·23 inch calibre may, without holding a certificate, have in his possession, or purchase or acquire, such miniature rifles and ammunition suitable therefor; and any person may, without holding a certificate, use any such rifle and ammunition at such a range or gallery".

At risk of diverting the thread slightly...

The usual requirements for secure storage etc are all FAC conditions, so, does the bolded bit above mean that .22 rifles acquired/possessed under S11(4) are thus not subject to the usual restrictions on slots for firearms, ammo purchase/store limits, good reason, and all the rest of the bureaucracy?

Seems like a mighty wide loophole if so, and one that I'm very surprised survived the 88 and 97 acts.

[Chapuis]

In reality the local police force normally persaude the miniture rifle club to have a firearms certificate for the sake of convenience as most firearms dealers are reluctant to sell or transfer firearms and ammunition purely on the basis of the miniture rifle club authorisation.
I suppose by doing this it also gives the police a foot inside the door in that conditions can then be applied.