Page 3 of 4
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:01 pm
by Justwatching
Steve12345 wrote:
The reason I say it's a long shot is just because there doesn't seem to be many people who have done it when I have looked on forums. I also mentioned it on the day when the pistol was picked up and didn't seem like it an option people were keen to look at. I get the impression it was more aimed directly at the person who acquired the item as a trophy, although I do agree with your previous comments that there are circumstances where it could be handed down. I do think I would be able to prove it's link to our family.
You are right in that this 1911 will mean more to me than anyone else, but then I guess you could argue it's no more special then some of the other items I have inherited. Although this was partly what I wanted to know and why I came to enthusiasts yourself, I had no idea how common / rare these pistols are, if there are any special models, anything to look out for etc.. On that note you have reminded me on a question I meant to ask, the Douglas that has been engraved on the side (think you can see it in one of the pics) I assume that is not standard and someone has added that on after it was issue to them?
They won't be keen on anything they don't understand/know about, so you'll have to be pushy if you want it. Trophies of war are pretty thin on the ground now as they need to have been acquired as a trophy prior to 1st January 1946 to qualify. Most trophies have probably been destroyed or sold out of the family by this point.
Do you know how your Grandfather (or Great Grandfather, or whoever in your family) first acquired the pistol?
Yes, the "Douglas" engraving was put on by its owner at some point. It was fairly common for soldiers to put their name or initials on their gun.
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:57 pm
by DanTheMan
Speaking as a 7.3 collector I think you should spend £100, get it deactivated and keep it at home hassle free.
In theory I could apply to get it added to my collection and shoot it at Bisley (would send you a video) BUT it does nothing for me, it's your families history so it should stay with you. If you did the 7.1 route you would not be able to shoot it and it's a ton of paperwork & hassle.
There are plenty of 1911's around, enough for everyone (deact owners and live collectors) so don't beat yourself up about this one.
Imagine when you get it back, you can keep it in a drawer and get it out to show your mates and keep telling the story for generations.....
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:23 pm
by bradaz11
see I'd like a gun that has a bit of providence , all my 7.3's are just random guns and I have no idea who owned them before me.
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:44 pm
by DanTheMan
bradaz11 wrote:see I'd like a gun that has a bit of providence , all my 7.3's are just random guns and I have no idea who owned them before me.
Would you like to look after this one ?
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:55 pm
by Steve12345
MistAgain wrote:It certainly is a 1911 model , serial number suggests it was made in 1914 as a commercial model , not part of a military order .
It would have been nice to know if it had any sort of uk proof marks or uk military acceptance marks .
That would have at least indicated it being in the UK officially .
My own 1911A1 was donated to the UK by the American Committee for the Defense of British Homes . It had an arrow head stamp that showed it had been accepted by the military here , and I think it was proofed at its acceptance as well.
It was issued to the SOE , the user was wounded in Italy, he gave it to a tank commander who later joined the police force before selling it to me in 1976 .
Sadly it was handed in and destroyed.
Your 1911 really should be preserved if possible .
Thanks MistAgain, been reading more today and your right in that it is most likely a commercial model. There were certain serial numbers around this time that were shipped to UK to London Armoury so this could be one, might explain how my grandfather / great grandfather got hold of it. That poster is interesting, sorry to hear your 1911 got destroyed :( I wish I had know to look for some proof marks at the time but didn't know enough about it unfortunately!
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:03 pm
by Steve12345
Thanks everyone for the replies. In truth I don't know if I will ever find out exactly how he acquired it now, I will ask around the family to see if anyone remembers anything but doubt it.
I see your point DanTheMan, at the moment I just want to make sure I do actually get it back, it then can go to a section 5 dealer so I have some time. Personally i'm not too interested in shooting it so thinking about it, if I wanted to keep it as is it would be easier to just pay the storage to keep it at a section 5 dealer long term and save me looking at any licensing, but if I can't ever see it then whats the point I guess... I'll keep you updated next week when I hope to hear back.
I wouldn't rule out letting someone with a 7.3 look after it. Obviously I would always want to retain possesion and even then may decide to get it deactivated at a later date but I assume you could transfer ownership temporarily? I assume this won't be much interest to a museum either if there are loads around?
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:49 pm
by bradaz11
Steve12345 wrote:
I wouldn't rule out letting someone with a 7.3 look after it. Obviously I would always want to retain possesion and even then may decide to get it deactivated at a later date but I assume you could transfer ownership temporarily? I assume this won't be much interest to a museum either if there are loads around?
as long as there is an agreement and you aren't dealing with a total tool, I think you'd be able to do something like that. you wouldn't be able to retain possession, but you'd be able to retain ownership and lend it it to the possessor, but the wording on the FAC would be sold and owned due to how those are set up.
once a sec5 firearm is at a heritage site, it needs permission to move elsewhere. but if you were wanting it deactivated, that should be able to be done via a sec5 smith attached to a site. and then would dissapear from the FAC. If you do want to go down that route, I would like to formally say that I'd be very interested in helping you out, assuming I could shoot it. and when the time comes that you want it scrapped, it would be and returned to you.
once it is in possession as a 7.3 firearm you might even wish to sell it. 7.3 possessed guns attract a higfher premiumum than those simply sec5.
with all of this, if you were ever going transfer it, it would need to be proofed if it never has been before.
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:45 am
by MistAgain
Steve12345 wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. In truth I don't know if I will ever find out exactly how he acquired it now, I will ask around the family to see if anyone remembers anything but doubt it.
Its a pity it has the name engraved on the slide , that reduces its value to a collector.
Without the engraving it could fetch a very good price in USA .
Check your message box .
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:23 pm
by Steve12345
Gents,
Thank you to the people that have messaged offering help, I can't reply yet as I haven't made 15 posts but I will when I can.
Much appreciated!
Steve
Re: New member intro and question
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:32 pm
by Steve12345
bradaz11 wrote:Steve12345 wrote:
I wouldn't rule out letting someone with a 7.3 look after it. Obviously I would always want to retain possesion and even then may decide to get it deactivated at a later date but I assume you could transfer ownership temporarily? I assume this won't be much interest to a museum either if there are loads around?
as long as there is an agreement and you aren't dealing with a total tool, I think you'd be able to do something like that. you wouldn't be able to retain possession, but you'd be able to retain ownership and lend it it to the possessor, but the wording on the FAC would be sold and owned due to how those are set up.
once a sec5 firearm is at a heritage site, it needs permission to move elsewhere. but if you were wanting it deactivated, that should be able to be done via a sec5 smith attached to a site. and then would dissapear from the FAC. If you do want to go down that route, I would like to formally say that I'd be very interested in helping you out, assuming I could shoot it. and when the time comes that you want it scrapped, it would be and returned to you.
once it is in possession as a 7.3 firearm you might even wish to sell it. 7.3 possessed guns attract a higfher premiumum than those simply sec5.
with all of this, if you were ever going transfer it, it would need to be proofed if it never has been before.
Thanks Bradaz11, retaining ownership is more the words I was looking for rather then possession, although I accept for the purposes of certification it would need sold. Thank you for your offer, if i were to gift to someone on a temp basis I wouldn't have any issues with it being used, obviously subject to all the correct checks and as you say, it's not someone who is a total tool! Might be nice to do before / if it gets deactivated. I haven't ruled anything out at all yet but will know more about where I stand & options once I have spoke to the licensing team next week. My main concern for the moment is getting it stored safely at a dealer!
Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned about the condition of the internals. Out of curiosity I assume it would need to be stripped and checked / cleaned having most likely not been fired since WW2 and not knowing the history. Is this a job for gunsmiths or could a competent enthusiast like yourself do this dependant on the damage obviously?