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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:47 pm 
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Posts: 12
Evening,

Just joined today and wanted to say hi and ask for bit of help, it's a pistol related question but thought i'd introduce myself and my reasons for joining all in one post.

I don't shoot for a hobby and don't own any firearms or have a certificate, so may seem a bit strange joining a shooting forum, i'll get to the point...

This week I came across the pistol in the attached picture (hopefully its attached?) I'm sure many of you enthusiasts will recognise it but its an M1911, serial number C94XX, if i have looked it up correctly the serial number shows it as a very early model? It is still active and has been inside a safe for a long time. The local police force have collected it, confirmed it is real and still active and have taken it for storage. I have spoken to a local gunsmith who has been incredibly helpful, he has section 5 for storage and will be able to pick the weapon up if / when the police release it and deactivate it for me if thats the preferred route, or provide long term storage.

To be honest there isn't really a specific point to the post just interested to hear peoples thoughts, is it common to find stuff like this? is the pistol as old as it looks, pre-war era? is it of any historical interest?, I know it was quite a common weapon with lots made over the years. Is deactivating it the right route to go down, from reading the law this week I know there are other options for collectors with 7.3 who may be interested?

Please jump in if you have any thoughts or own similar.

Steve


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:54 pm 
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Steve12345, welcome :wave:

I am sure someone will come along who knows a thing or two and who is able to answer your questions.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am
Posts: 41
Welcome Steve,

Nice find. We'd need better/closer pictures to comment on the gun itself. Although the 1911 is common, some examples are very rare and have high collector value (Singer 1911 A1, for example). It would worth finding out more about its provenance before deactivating as the damage can't be reversed.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Thank you both for your replies, I took quite a few pictures before it was removed so I will get some more up tomorrow when I get a chance. I guess my initial worry was it may be destroyed before I had chance to do anything but I have been assured this won't happen. The pistol belonged to my grandfather, him and his father and grandfather all served in either WW1 or WW2, it was with many other war era items (helmets / bayonets etc) so it is almost certainly a trophy of war acquired by one of them. Would be great to keep it in the family but I feel I'd rather not damage it and keep as is even if that meant I obviously couldn't keep it myself.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:28 am 
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Hello and welcome :wave:

Interesting find. Hopefully you'll find some more info on it. It would be a shame to deactivate it but that might be the best option if you don't want to sell it.
Someone here should be able to help.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:39 am 
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Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club.
If it is good on the inside and fully working then de-activation would be an act of vandalism.

If it is in good condition then it would be better to pass it on to another custodian if you are unable to hold it. If you want a deactivated 1911 then I am sure there are many already ruined guns for you to buy. We are only stewards of such guns looking after them for future generations.

Also it is not a weapon it is a firearm, it only becomes a weapon when it is used with intent to do harm which I am assuming is not what you want it for.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am
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Steve12345 wrote:
The pistol belonged to my grandfather, him and his father and grandfather all served in either WW1 or WW2, it was with many other war era items (helmets / bayonets etc) so it is almost certainly a trophy of war acquired by one of them.


Wait, it's your grandfather's trophy of war? Do you think you could demonstrate that to the police's satisfaction? You could potentially get a firearms certificate and keep it as is. You would need Secretary of State authority, but that's not insurmountable. To quote section 13.64 of Home Office guidance:

"The provisions of section 6 of the 1997 Act make no mention of the inheritance of
handguns held as trophies of war so these cannot be inherited directly under those
provisions. However, the Home Office is prepared, in principle, to grant the Secretary of
State’s authority to allow new heirs to inherit such weapons, and they may then be entered
on the heir’s certificate as “trophies of war” in the usual way."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:23 pm
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Hi everyone,

I don't particularly want to deactivate it (or vandalize as you put it!) but I would really like to keep it. I don't have much interest in it's value, it means far more to me as an heirloom. I think I would almost prefer to leave it as is and keep it in storage or gift to someone I trusted with a 7.3 to look after it.

With regards to the trophy of war, it most definitely is an item my Grandfather or great Grandfather would have acquired during service. Thank you for pointing me to the legislation, I have read bits of it and it seems a bit confusing to me.

13.63 Firearms acquired from the original holder and no longer held as family heirlooms should
not normally be regarded as “trophies of war” and should be subject to the normal firearm
certificate procedure. They may qualify for Section 7.1 or 7.3 status. This implies that only my Grandfather could have held it as a trophy or war, however the next paragraph which you have quoted makes it sound possible.

I guess my question would be is this a realistic prospect, and does anyone know of someone who has successfully done this? I can find very little about it online which makes me think it must be quite rare?

Thanks all,

Steve


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:23 pm
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A couple more pics attached so people can see if its the real deal & as old as I think or not?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am
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Steve12345 wrote:
13.63 Firearms acquired from the original holder and no longer held as family heirlooms should
not normally be regarded as “trophies of war” and should be subject to the normal firearm
certificate procedure. They may qualify for Section 7.1 or 7.3 status. This implies that only my Grandfather could have held it as a trophy or war, however the next paragraph which you have quoted makes it sound possible.


"Firearms acquired from the original holder and no longer held as family heirlooms..."

The exclusion does not apply to your circumstances as your pistol is being held as a family heirloom.

Looks like it's pre-A1 revision, so quite early.


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