The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Supporting all legal firearm owners, collectors, enthusiasts, shooters and competitors by promoting and encouraging legitimate gun ownership and use in the UK through unity, advocacy and discussion. To REGISTER contact admin(at)full-bore.co.uk
It is currently Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:27 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:24 pm 
Offline
Sporadic Site Supporter

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:52 pm
Posts: 393
Gh0st wrote:
So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?


I would suggest the one built on a glock lower is Sec. 5.

That doesn't make it illegal, it just means you are never going to buy it on a Sec. 1 license.

MistAgain wrote:

Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?


Because for the best part of two years he assured us he was going to get a genuine Glock LBP built for him and imported.....


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 767
Location: West Country
Home club or Range: FDPC
Rarms wrote:
Gh0st wrote:
So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?


I would suggest the one built on a glock lower is Sec. 5.

That doesn't make it illegal, it just means you are never going to buy it on a Sec. 1 license.

MistAgain wrote:

Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?


Because for the best part of two years he assured us he was going to get a genuine Glock LBP built for him and imported.....


Yup but it was shocking so bad my Ruger built instead!

_________________
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:12 am
Posts: 557
Gh0st wrote:
Rarms wrote:
Gh0st wrote:
So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?


I would suggest the one built on a glock lower is Sec. 5.

That doesn't make it illegal, it just means you are never going to buy it on a Sec. 1 license.

MistAgain wrote:

Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?


Because for the best part of two years he assured us he was going to get a genuine Glock LBP built for him and imported.....


Yup but it was shocking so bad my Ruger built instead!


I do wonder about the legality of that Ruger as well !


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:23 pm
Posts: 2558
Location: Rossendale
For a lot of people the confiscation of the L1A1 straight pulls is still fresh in their memory.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:06 am 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2015
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:01 pm
Posts: 6828
Location: Co. Durham
Home club or Range: N.E. P.S.G., 3 Counties Sporting Club, Galloway Small Arms Club and various IPSC clubs around the country
MistAgain wrote:
Taurus revolvers are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

GSG pistols are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

Glock look alikes are legal if they do not have a Glock frame .



Its this that confuses me. At the Taurus and GSG factories there are not UK spec frames made for either gun. The same frames for both the Taurus Mod 66 and GSG 1911 'rest of the world' and UK spec are made at the same time on the same machines. Once they have all been made a small number are taken to a different part of the factory where coat hangers are attached. These Section 5 frames are made into a Section 1 format in the respective factories.

Are we then saying that because its done in the makers factory (if it in fact is, and not done by some kind of subsidiary, possibly on another site...), that is fine, but if that factory sold the unaltered frames to another company, say a mile down the road, that second company couldn't 'convert' them and send them to the UK in a S1 format? That sounds like something that could only be determined in a court to me and so far no one has provided a case reference?

_________________
Mark
DVC


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 767
Location: West Country
Home club or Range: FDPC
Blackstuff wrote:
MistAgain wrote:
Taurus revolvers are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

GSG pistols are section 1 legal because they are factory built with 12 inch barrels and an extension rod .

Glock look alikes are legal if they do not have a Glock frame .



Its this that confuses me. At the Taurus and GSG factories there are not UK spec frames made for either gun. The same frames for both the Taurus Mod 66 and GSG 1911 'rest of the world' and UK spec are made at the same time on the same machines. Once they have all been made a small number are taken to a different part of the factory where coat hangers are attached. These Section 5 frames are made into a Section 1 format in the respective factories.

Are we then saying that because its done in the makers factory (if it in fact is, and not done by some kind of subsidiary, possibly on another site...), that is fine, but if that factory sold the unaltered frames to another company, say a mile down the road, that second company couldn't 'convert' them and send them to the UK in a S1 format? That sounds like something that could only be determined in a court to me and so far no one has provided a case reference?


Welcome to the uninformed Grey zone of the law.

I was trying to find the case that went to court on theS&W LBR as it got thrown out.

_________________
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:31 am 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2018
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 10142
If the firearm is made as a UK spec in its first incarnation, then no issues. If that first incarnation is made to the spec of a UK prohibited weapon, then regardless of what is done to convert that weapon to UK s1, it will be regarded for all intents and purposes, a prohibited weapon if imported.

The reference to Glock framed LBPs and S&W revolvers is based on the fact that neither Glock or S&W will supply frames separately. Hence, to have a UK spec Glock or S&W it would have had to come from a converted weapon and so remaining prohibited.

_________________
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:37 am 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2018
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 10142
Gh0st wrote:

Welcome to the uninformed Grey zone of the law.

I was trying to find the case that went to court on theS&W LBR as it got thrown out.



This “case” has the same mythical existence as a unicorn. I believe it doesn’t exist, nor has it ever.

Cases involving converted weapons have rarely generated precedent because the legislation is self evident.

_________________
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am
Posts: 767
Location: West Country
Home club or Range: FDPC
Sim G wrote:
Gh0st wrote:

Welcome to the uninformed Grey zone of the law.

I was trying to find the case that went to court on theS&W LBR as it got thrown out.



This “case” has the same mythical existence as a unicorn. I believe it doesn’t exist, nor has it ever.

Cases involving converted weapons have rarely generated precedent because the legislation is self evident.


Well they hold about as much gravitas as your opinion, unless you’re a lawyer too? And last time I checked you weren’t, your opinions are as grey as the law they are based on..

_________________
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Not another Glock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:37 am 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2018
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 10142
But, the law isn’t grey in this regard!! This is what this whole debacle is about. No, I’m not a lawyer, but have a vast experience of the law as a profession and an interest in firearms that has made me more acutely aware than an awful lot of lawyers I know.

Do you honestly think that I, or anyone else has joined and contributed to this and other threads to somehow bully or denigrate you? No, far from it. Firstly, despite that you have spent several thousand pounds on a firearm that is believed to be prohibited, no one wants to see you go to prison. Likewise, as a shooting community, we don’t want to see LBRs all over the papers again so that the Home Sec. declares them and once again we have property confiscated, this time without compensation.

If you end up on B wing HMP Big House, then 600 quid will have seemed cheap to avoid it. Seek a specialist criminal barrister and pay for his opinion. Make sure you tell him everything you know or even suspect about the vagaries of your LBR, and get his considered opinion.

It may very well be contrary to mine. Hopefully it is then I can get Wilson to build me an S&W! But frankly I don’t have enough crayons to explain it to you any more.

_________________
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group