The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

aris wrote: Is there anything specific in the law which refers to LBP? I always assumed it was S1 because the definition of the firearm conformed to S1 - i.e. min 300mm barrel, min 600mm overall, not semi-auto (unless 22lr).

No, there isn’t. And that could be our downfall. When the first LBRs were bounced onto the market, the then firearms licensing working group included GCN and Snowdrop. They had a hissy fit and a half! Claiming “loop holes” and all manner of skulduggery not “in the spirit” of the law. The then Home Secretary, Jack Straw, decreed that those firearms wouldn’t be referred to as “carbines” as they were and came up with the classification of LBRs.

However, this was tempered with, no doubt to appease the antis, that if the Home Secretary in the future decided to ban LBRs as “especially dangerous”, this would be via Statutory Instrument and no compensation would be paid.

aris wrote: Where in the legislation does it say this though?

S7 Firearms Amendment Act 1988

Gh0st wrote:You mean section 5 that doesn’t exist outside UK Firearms Act?

And this is why you don’t get it. You don’t understand what the law is saying in this regard, despite it being explained by many people, in many different ways, to you.

I think I said the last time, you would be best served spending 600 quid with a criminal barrister for his opinion...

Sim G wrote:

aris wrote: Where in the legislation does it say this though?

S7 Firearms Amendment Act 1988

7 Conversion not to affect classification.

(1)Any weapon which—

[F1(a)has at any time (whether before or after the passing of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997) been a weapon of a kind described in section 5(1) or (1A) of the principal Act (including any amendments to section 5(1) made under section 1(4) of this Act);]

(b)is not a self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which has at any such time been such a weapon by reason only of having had a barrel less than 24 inches in length,

shall be treated as a prohibited weapon notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a weapon of a different kind.

While not 100% clear - I can certainly see how it would be interpreted as that.

[*]It mentions 'at any time' and then qualifies that on a date. Not 100% clear.
[*]It is not 100% clear if that means guns which are already in the UK and thus 'classified' .

Of course, i'm not a lawyer - so can't comment definitively - but based on this and erring on the side of caution - I would certainly seek further advice.

I wonder if Glock would be willing to sell barrel-less 44 kits as a stock item and if that could alleviate the issue. Something to ponder.

Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?

Glock does not sell frames , therefore the legality of this pistol is very doubtful .

If you watch the vid done by Mr wrong Collins , he even mentions they may use a different frame "for legal reasons" .

MistAgain wrote:

Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?

Glock does not sell frames , therefore the legality of this pistol is very doubtful .

If you watch the vid done by Mr wrong Collins , he even mentions they may use a different frame "for legal reasons" .

I interpreted the 'legal reasons' to be more of a trademark nature - passing off.

Long-Collins could tell me it was Sunday today, and I'd want a second opinion....

I could actually see Glock producing a LBP version after they've satisfied the US and EU market with standard G44s. The UK is an important "market" to maintain. Just about every British police force now. They arm the British military and in more free parts of the Isles, Glocks are used for target shooting and CCW....

I could see them kicking a £1500 clone into a cocked hat!

aris wrote: While not 100% clear - I can certainly see how it would be interpreted as that.

[*]It mentions 'at any time' and then qualifies that on a date. Not 100% clear.
[*]It is not 100% clear if that means guns which are already in the UK and thus 'classified' .

“At any time” means exactly that. When ever and where ever.

The inclusion of the date covers the 1997 Amendment Act enduring that those prohibited at that time, (the handgun ban) can neither be converted.

MistAgain wrote:

Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?

Glock does not sell frames , therefore the legality of this pistol is very doubtful .

If you watch the vid done by Mr wrong Collins , he even mentions they may use a different frame "for legal reasons" .

So playing devils advocate, how does one check the providence of a frame? How would you check the frame was not sold say in the USA> who’s responsibility is that? Are each police force going to check? There’s nothing saying the owner has to either? Just that you cant convert an already existing Uk Sec 5 pistol?

Gh0st wrote:

MistAgain wrote:

Gh0st wrote:So you’re saying the calibre innovations glock is illegal?

Glock does not sell frames , therefore the legality of this pistol is very doubtful .

If you watch the vid done by Mr wrong Collins , he even mentions they may use a different frame "for legal reasons" .

So playing devils advocate, how does one check the providence of a frame? How would you check the frame was not sold say in the USA> who’s responsibility is that? Are each police force going to check? There’s nothing saying the owner has to either? Just that you cant convert an already existing Uk Sec 5 pistol?

Why is it that you will not accept the simple fact that neither Glock or Smith & Wesson will not sell a frame only in any country ?