Gallery LBR

24" and less, a place to discuss all things handgun related, section 7.3. Long barrelled revolvers, long barrelled pistols and section 5. Overseas contributions are more than welcome.

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Gh0st
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Re: Gallery LBR

#91 Post by Gh0st »

Ok so the long and Short of it is.

As the Firearms be it Revolver or pistol are acquired direct from the manufacturer e.g. S&W by the Gunsmith they are still yet to enter the public domain or be registered by anyone. They are modified by the gunsmith and then they are sold complete as a NEW LBR / LBP. Therefore never being sold or owned as a sec 5.

And before you all jump on the dubious bandwagon this has been discussed and confirmed with ATF stateside. Also in writing for this particular gunsmith.

I guess the rest is up to you if you buy one. I certainly do not have an issue buying a Europa for example.

Now someone mentioned JR providing second hand frames. This would NOT be ok due to the gun having been in the public domain as a sec 5 Firearm previously. So I would certainly check before buying one of those. You shouldn’t have any issues with a new frame as set out above.

Cue onslaught....
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

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BooBoo
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Re: Gallery LBR

#92 Post by BooBoo »

Unless the various guns have been broken down into parts along with many others as per the parts bin approach of R v Cotswold Arms. At this point, the various parts can then be re-built back into s.1 compliant firearms etc. etc. with new or longer barrels.

The best bet is of course to obtain a firearm that is s.1 as manufactured by the maker aka Taurus. No wriggle room there...
MistAgain
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Re: Gallery LBR

#93 Post by MistAgain »

the running man wrote:Well, after all this, I've spoken with my supplier,3 relevant authorities with high ranking have signed off on what I and many others have been supplied with, and what has been a issue with some on here,...

I could put something crass,but why bother,I'm fully informed and now rest assured...
Well if you have that in writing , and the person/persons who wrote it have the authority to write it , I guess you have a "get out of jail card ".

However it looks like I cant have a nice Smith & Wesson LBR .....................

From my local police , in writing , (email that is) If it is manufactured as a sect 5 it stays as a sect 5 even if it is changed to be a section 1.
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Dellboy
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Re: Gallery LBR

#94 Post by Dellboy »

MistAgain wrote:
the running man wrote:Well, after all this, I've spoken with my supplier,3 relevant authorities with high ranking have signed off on what I and many others have been supplied with, and what has been a issue with some on here,...

I could put something crass,but why bother,I'm fully informed and now rest assured...
Well if you have that in writing , and the person/persons who wrote it have the authority to write it , I guess you have a "get out of jail card ".

However it looks like I cant have a nice Smith & Wesson LBR .....................

From my local police , in writing , (email that is) If it is manufactured as a sect 5 it stays as a sect 5 even if it is changed to be a section 1.

Very similar approach in my area in the past but would a Home Office Letter trump the local police or is it regarded as a discretion of the local chief constable thing ?
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Gh0st
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Re: Gallery LBR

#95 Post by Gh0st »

Dellboy wrote:
MistAgain wrote:
the running man wrote:Well, after all this, I've spoken with my supplier,3 relevant authorities with high ranking have signed off on what I and many others have been supplied with, and what has been a issue with some on here,...

I could put something crass,but why bother,I'm fully informed and now rest assured...
Well if you have that in writing , and the person/persons who wrote it have the authority to write it , I guess you have a "get out of jail card ".

However it looks like I cant have a nice Smith & Wesson LBR .....................

From my local police , in writing , (email that is) If it is manufactured as a sect 5 it stays as a sect 5 even if it is changed to be a section 1.

Very similar approach in my area in the past but would a Home Office Letter trump the local police or is it regarded as a discretion of the local chief constable thing ?
Be interesting to see which forces are saying what?

The Grey area is its not "Manufactured" until its sold to the public domain.
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk
IainWR
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Re: Gallery LBR

#96 Post by IainWR »

As Sim G has said, it matters not what the police or Home Office think. The law is what it is, and questions of interpretation can only be settled definitively in a court of law.
I think the question here comes down to whether the court should interpret the Firearms Acts in such a way as to take account of matters that happen abroad. Given the rarity of firearms cases and the corresponding lack of precedent, I would expect a court to draw on parallels in other areas of law, and as I have no experience at all in possible parallels, I can't speculate on those. Sim G has a strong point in the plain words on the face of S7 F(A)A 88, but the possibility exists of it being held to be subject to geographical limits. However, those plain words define (incompletely, else we wouldn't be having this discussion) an element of the offence (that an LBR manufactured from components obtained from a functioning S5 weapon is itself a S5 weapon), not the offence itself, which would be possession of a prohibited weapon without authority in Great Britain.
Last edited by IainWR on Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sim G
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Re: Gallery LBR

#97 Post by Sim G »

Gh0st wrote:Ok so the long and Short of it is.

As the Firearms be it Revolver or pistol are acquired direct from the manufacturer e.g. S&W by the Gunsmith they are still yet to enter the public domain or be registered by anyone. They are modified by the gunsmith and then they are sold complete as a NEW LBR / LBP. Therefore never being sold or owned as a sec 5.

And before you all jump on the dubious bandwagon this has been discussed and confirmed with ATF stateside. Also in writing for this particular gunsmith.

I guess the rest is up to you if you buy one. I certainly do not have an issue buying a Europa for example.

Now someone mentioned JR providing second hand frames. This would NOT be ok due to the gun having been in the public domain as a sec 5 Firearm previously. So I would certainly check before buying one of those. You shouldn’t have any issues with a new frame as set out above.

Cue onslaught....
Pardon the pun of your first sentence....? ;) lol

So no UK authorities blessing? It still sounds really wafty...
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Sim G
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Re: Gallery LBR

#98 Post by Sim G »

BooBoo wrote:Unless the various guns have been broken down into parts along with many others as per the parts bin approach of R v Cotswold Arms. At this point, the various parts can then be re-built back into s.1 compliant firearms etc. etc. with new or longer barrels.

The best bet is of course to obtain a firearm that is s.1 as manufactured by the maker aka Taurus. No wriggle room there...

I remember the “parts bin” aspect being put forward by Anglo Custom Rifles with regards to their L1A1s? Also did they not present to FELWG and FSS that other modifications made to the bolt etc demonstrated that the s1 rifles could not be converted? I do know that Imbel and Oakrise Arms who did the M1Garand and BM59 did so using newly manufactured components and that their SVT faltered because Lux Defence wouldn’t guarantee new.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Sim G
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Re: Gallery LBR

#99 Post by Sim G »

Gh0st wrote: The Grey area is its not "Manufactured" until its sold to the public domain.

The “grey” area is would the transfer of the revolver from the Smith and Wesson factory, to the gunsmith fall into the parameters of, “at anytime be of a type as described in s5”. And if decided that yes, from Massachusetts to Tennessee, it is a short firearm, then no matter what that gunsmith does, it’ll still be a short firearm and prohibited in UK law.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Sim G
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Re: Gallery LBR

#100 Post by Sim G »

IainWR wrote:As Sim G has said, it matters not what the police or Home Office think. The law is what it is, and questions of interpretation can only be settled definitively in a court of law.
I think the question here comes down to whether the court should interpret the Firearms Acts in such a way as to take account of matters that happen abroad. Given the rarity of firearms cases and the corresponding lack of precedent, I would expect a court to draw on parallels in other areas of law, and as I have no experience at all in possible parallels, I can't speculate on those. Sim G has a strong point in the plain words on the face of S7 F(A)A 88, but the possibility exists of it being held to be subject to geographical limits. However, those plain words define (incompletely, else we wouldn't be having this discussion) an element of the offence (that an LBR manufactured from components obtained from a functioning S5 weapon is itself a S5 weapon), not the offence itself, which would be possession of a prohibited weapon without authority in Great Britain.

Yep, in a nutshell. :good:
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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