7.62/.308 or 7.62x39?

[Fedaykin]

I think we all know what 7.62/308 actually means.

Doesn't make it the correct way to record what ammunition you can hold on your ticket based upon the list of calibres that DanTheMan has listed!

[TRG-22]

.38Special and .357 Magnum will safely chamber together in the same gun

I new someone once who had a Ruger Blackhawk which did that, and he had the 9mm cylinder as well.


OOI, if you had a legal LBR version of that, does anyone know if it would count as two firearms, or one?

[7792]

Genuine questions since I am new to all this...

This idea that just putting 7.62/.308 and then buying anything that has 7.62 ammunition has been doing the rounds for a long time and is very much outside the spirit of the law.

On the other hand a 7.62x54r round will not chamber in a gun chambered for 7.62x39 and you certainly shouldn't be putting 7.62 on your ticket only and then buying both

So are you referring to just ammunition? I understand that if my ticket says "7.62" I shouldn't be buying any/all ammunition that is 7.62 calibre.

BUT if my firearms permission says ".308/7.62" as recorded by the firearms licencing dept. themselves then why is the onus on me to 'interpret' that there are *some* 7.62 rifles I can buy, and *some* 7.62 rifles I can't buy? They didn't ask me to specify before giving me the 'broad' permission.

Of course, once I have a rifle under that permission I would expect to only be able to purchase the ammunition designed to be fired in that rifle.

a shared variation reasonable the same goes for .223/5.56x49

I also didn't specify "x49" but simply ".223/5.56" so is there a case length that is presumed to be the standard for this calibre too?

Likewise if buying rimfire you need to be specifying the type so .22lr or .22wmr would not be acceptable just as .22

I put two ".22LR" on my initial request and it was returned with two ".22RF" on the cert. So to my mind they are happy for me to have .22LR and/or .22WMR in those slots?

[Mattnall]

If the FAC say 22rf then you can get any 22rf chambered rifle, similarly with broad cartridge choices based on calibre like .30cal.

However the HO have written to police forces (and I believe it is in the new guidance) that broad cartridge choices based on a calibre should be discouraged and the practice stopped. Some still seem to ignore HO Guidance and I guess it will come to a head soon, but I wonder if we'll get the pointy end of the stick poked at us and the firearms departments will get a stern telling off at best.

[TRG-22]

However the HO have written to police forces (and I believe it is in the new guidance) that broad cartridge choices based on a calibre should be discouraged and the practice stopped.

Do they have any evidence to show that crimes will be prevented by tightening it up?

[7792]

the HO have written to police forces (and I believe it is in the new guidance) that broad cartridge choices based on a calibre should be discouraged and the practice stopped.

Is this published anywhere? If not an FOI request could be in order. I’d be interested to read what they have said.

[TRG-22]

Maybe the motive is revenue raising, more variation fees?

[Mattnall]

the HO have written to police forces (and I believe it is in the new guidance) that broad cartridge choices based on a calibre should be discouraged and the practice stopped.

Is this published anywhere? If not an FOI request could be in order. I’d be interested to read what they have said.

I cannot find anything definitive just now, it came around a few years ago now, but check HO Guidance para 10.8.
I know this is only the Guidance but: "The information will normally need to be specific and not cover a range of calibres or a generic group such as .22 CF (centrefire)."

[mowdy]

my 30-06 was just marked as a 30 cal to acquire on my Fac
and my Hornet was down as .22 CF as i did not know what .22 center fire i wanted.
I was in Kranks one day and they did not want to sell me 22 Hornet ammo as my fac said 22 center fire until it was explained to them!!!!

[Fedaykin]

So are you referring to just ammunition? I understand that if my ticket says "7.62" I shouldn't be buying any/all ammunition that is 7.62 calibre.

BUT if my firearms permission says ".308/7.62" as recorded by the firearms licencing dept. themselves then why is the onus on me to 'interpret' that there are *some* 7.62 rifles I can buy, and *some* 7.62 rifles I can't buy? They didn't ask me to specify before giving me the 'broad' permission.

Of course, once I have a rifle under that permission I would expect to only be able to purchase the ammunition designed to be fired in that rifle.

I also didn't specify "x49" but simply ".223/5.56" so is there a case length that is presumed to be the standard for this calibre too?

I put two ".22LR" on my initial request and it was returned with two ".22RF" on the cert. So to my mind they are happy for me to have .22LR and/or .22WMR in those slots?

It depends, really you need to be doing some research about what calibre a gun uses when buying. I am personally of the opinion that broad designation outside the spirit of the law. There are grey areas of course especially if you start buying rifles in historic calibres, for example 8x50r Lebel is a totally different cartridge to 8x50r Mannlicher. To make things even more complicated PPU commercially makes Lebel ammunition but they use the CIP designation which is 8x51r Lebel.

To be honest .223/5.56 would be perfectly understandable the same as .308/7.62 but again if someone then tried to buy a rifle chambered in 7.62x54r then I would very much say you are operating outside the spirit of the law hence the recent guidance to Police licensing to tighten up on using broad designations. I am of the view that as our system is setup in a way that means we have to put an active choice into deciding what calibre a rifle we buy is in then we should not be using workarounds to change our mind down the line hence why use of accurate designation and case lengths or cartridge name should play a part.

I had the same thing happen with my certificate when it came to .22, I put in for .22lr the accurate designation for what I wanted rifle wise and it came back .22RF. Now I wasn't going to kick up a fuss over it as I stuck to what I wanted to buy but the issue here is safety from my position. The ballistic performance of .22 Short, .22lr and .22WMR are radically different and that should play a part in the decision making process.

I think clearer guidance on this will be beneficial to those who participate in our sport and not hinder it at all.